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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Rogando y con el mazo dando

English translation:

cross in one hand, sword in the other

Added to glossary by patinba
May 16, 2011 18:05
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

Rogando y con el mazo dando

Spanish to English Social Sciences Philosophy
So...
Normally I would translate this as "God helps those who help themselves", or something of that ilk. However, in this case the author is using this expression in an atypical way (at least in my native English speaking opinion). And, to top it all off, he uses the hammer metaphor in the next sentence. I need some ideas for how to either translate this smoothly, or write a coherent translator's note. Here's the text:

Baste decir que se puede comparar el gesto de la guerra santa en el Islam y en el Cristianismo, diciendo que para los crusados cristianos (como recoge el dicho de ) consitió en blandir el mazo con una mano en tanto que la otra sostenía el rosario, mientras que para sus contrincantes,... el rosario parecía hacerse innecesario.


(This is a book on psychology/philosophy that is for a general, well-educated, audience.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 cross in one hand, sword in the other
4 Kiss on the cheek, knife in the back
4 take a "guns and butter" approach*
4 Trust in God but keep your powder dry / Put your trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry
3 sugaring the pill
3 "supplicating piously while swinging the mace for good measure" (in a two-faced gesture)
Change log

May 17, 2011 23:00: patinba Created KOG entry

Discussion

Christian [email protected] May 17, 2011:
Patricia and Lydia I found your interpretation very interesting, describing hypocrites. I always thought of that expression differently: that it is not enough to pray for something, but you have to also make an effort, keep working at it (hammering...)
Michele Minsuk (asker) May 16, 2011:
Clearing up confusion... To those of you who were confused, I apologize. I was puzzled as to why the confusion was occuring, and I see now, that for some reason the most important part was omitted from between the <<>> quote marks! I typed it in, but it doesn't show. Now I don't understand why EVERYONE wasn't confused.
patricia scott May 16, 2011:
between <and> ??
Lydia De Jorge May 16, 2011:
A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando - basically describes a hypocrite.
philgoddard May 16, 2011:
I'm confused too - where does it say "rogando y con el mazo dando"?
DLyons May 16, 2011:
Yes, what exactly is the question? The answer may be "With a Bible in one hand and a ZZZ in the other"
where ZZZ is a mace, rifle (or according to Barth, a newspaper).
patricia scott May 16, 2011:
The English expression (coined by Benjamin Franklin) means that we can't spend our lives waiting for God to do for us what we need to do for ourselves.

The Spanish expression means we have no problem going to church on Sunday, spouting faith, hope, and love, and then spending the rest of the week walking all over our brothers and sisters in the Lord.
patricia scott May 16, 2011:
Michelle, this idiomatic expression in Spanish means that you do two opposite things at the same time - Crusaders held the rosary (= prayed, spread the word of God) while "beating" (or killing people) - while Islam war simply beat or killed people, not finding any need to pray while doing so .
FVS (X) May 16, 2011:
What exactly is the question??? .

Proposed translations

+3
21 mins
Selected

cross in one hand, sword in the other

... followed by "swinging the sword in one hand while raising the cross with the other. Not literal, but within the bounds of artistic license?
"praise the Lord and pass the ammunition" is roughly what the Spanish A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando means. Your text explains it perfectly.
Peer comment(s):
agree Mariana Font
44 mins
Gracias, Mariana!
agree eski : Works for me! Saludos: eski in Acapulco ;))
2 hrs
Thank-you again!
agree David Ronder
4 hrs
Thank-you!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you! I think this is reasonable artistic license. I have chosen this translation because it maintains the weapon metaphor elegantly, is a set expression (which matters here since the author makes reference to a saying), and in my opinion fits the best with the theme. THank you, and all the others who answered, too."
32 mins

Kiss on the cheek, knife in the back

Kiss on the cheek, knife in the back - Haaretz Daily Newspaper ...
Apr 24, 2008 ... Every Pollard, every Kadish, reinforces the national-religious label of Judas Iscariot, a kiss on the cheek and a knife in the back, and in ...
www.haaretz.com/.../kiss-on-the-cheek-knife-in-the-back-1.2... - Cached
►
Blog de cHaOs-ClOwN - "The end is nigh" - Skyrock.com
Jan 20, 2011 ... A kiss on the cheek and a knife in the back. My mind is too weak to win at blackjack. Sparkling animals make a beautiful sound ...
chaos-clown.skyrock.com/ - Cached
Songs about and inspired by my muse Sarah...and a few old things ...
Aug 10, 2010 ... a kiss on the cheek and a knife in the back and yet I just keep finding another reason to try a whole new approach, try a new tack ...
poetrypoem.com/cgi-bin/index.pl?poemnumber=730290...0...
TV Reviews - Yahoo! TV
Mar 10, 2011 ... I think what you & NBC did was tacty, and unprofessional, Talk about a kiss on the cheek,and a knife in the back,WOW! ...
tv.yahoo.com/user/cSn0J9n_jtSMJByh/reviews?self= - Cached
Pope pledges to end rift with Orthodox - Page 5 - Christian Forums
10 posts - 5 authors - Last post: May 30, 2005
Kiss on the Cheek and a knife in the back. "We will tell you how we love you, and the by using Uniates we will keep stealing your ...
www.christianforums.com/t1678891-5/ - Cached
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42 mins

sugaring the pill

If the answer needs to be idiomatic, I can't think of anything nearer, although the 'pill' in this case could refer to those supporting the war/crusade or those on the receiving end (cultural imperialism, carrot and stick?)
If an idiomatic expression is not necessary a longer explanation may be a better solution.
Sugaring the pill only really works one way for me ( bad hidden/softened by good) and the sense of the original Spanish expression does not necessarily contain this idea.
Note from asker:
Thanks. I like this expression, but I think I need a weapon metaphor in this case, because of the larger context.
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1 hr

take a "guns and butter" approach*

*You would have to consult the client on this switch, but it is the modern equivalent in English of the point she or she wants to put across. The "saying" what have to be an expression or approach, but it captures the essence of two radically different but simultaneous strategies.
Now defined economically as: guns and butter
a symbol for the economic policy of a government insofar as spending is allocated for either military or social purposes - however, during the Vietnam War era, it was used to describe the American approach to "winning the hearts and minds" of the Vietnamese, simultaneously napalming one village and building a hospital or providing employment or aid to another village. It might work here.
Note from asker:
Thanks, Jenni. This is definitely the type of feed back I was looking for, and an expression that had not occurred to me.
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

"supplicating piously while swinging the mace for good measure" (in a two-faced gesture)

a mace was a club which knights in armour (i.e. the Crusaders) carried to bludgeon opponents in hand-to-hand combat.

I added "for good measure" to bring in the irony of the Crusaders' two-faced approach to their religious faith. Their opponents the Muslims, on the other hand, were not hypocritical.
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

Trust in God but keep your powder dry / Put your trust in God, but mind to keep your powder dry

Resultados de la búsquedaPut your trust in God, and keep your powder dry: Information from ... - [ Traducir esta página ]Cromwell‥when his troops were about crossing a river‥concluded an address‥with these words—'put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry.' ...
www.answers.com › ... › Religion & Spirituality - En caché - SimilaresOliver Cromwell - Wikiquote - [ Traducir esta página ]14 Mar 2011 ... Put your trust in God, but keep your powder dry. Variant: Trust in God, and keep your powder dry. Actual quotation: "Put your trust in God, ...
en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell - En caché - SimilaresKeep your powder dry - [ Traducir esta página ]Keep your powder dry - the meaning and origin of this saying. ... with these words - 'put your trust in God; but mind to keep your powder dry'." ...
www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/217500.html - En caché - SimilaresUrban Dictionary: Trust in God but keep your powder dry - [ Traducir esta página ]1.Fight like a man,this is a crucial moment,A question of life and death,no matter what may come,You have to face the situation.Depend on your weap...
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?... Trust%20in%20God%20but%20keep%20your%2... - En caché - Similares


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Resultados de la búsquedaa Dios rogando y con el mazo dando - significado de a Dios rogando ...a Dios rogando y con el mazo dando put your trust in God but keep your powder dry. a Dios rogando y con el mazo dando aide-toi et le ciel t'aidera ...
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Dios English Spanish Translation | Traductor ingles español¡Válgame Dios -> bless me; A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando -> trust in God but keep your powder dry; Vaya con Dios -> goodbye. , ¡Válgate Dios!, God ...
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PDF] "A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando", monopolio de la violencia y ...Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
(«Trust in God but keep your powder dry»: monopoly of .... «A Dios rogando y con el mazo dando»: monopolio de la violencia y conflicto político en la última ...
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