| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Rephrasing the Kudoz context rule 2.4 Thread poster: Nesrin
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Nesrin 
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:49
English to Arabic
+ ...
Hi!
I was once again discussing the issue of lacking context with my language-pair colleagues, and was getting evidence from the Kudoz rules when I found rule 2.4 saying the following:
Sufficient context must be provided with each question. When there is no context, the subject area and type of document should be indicated. It can be helpful to enter sentences or paragraphs where the term in question occurs. http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_asking/2.4#2.4
I just think that this phrasing might be encouraging people to provide a single word with the simple additional information that it's, e.g. "legal". I simply will not believe that there is such a thing as "no context".
The wider meaning of context is:
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context - That is, not just the words surrounding a certain term.
There is ALWAYS a story to tell on how you found yourself in a situation where you have to translate a certain word. I honestly can't think of a single situation where the only thing I can tell my colleagues is the irritating "sorry, no context" - even if it is a term I found on a shred of paper in the back of my attic, I will explain that to my colleagues, and I may even tell them something about the previous occupant of my house.
So, could this rule be rephrased in a way that earnestly entreats askers to always provide proper context?
Thanks!!
[Edited at 2010-05-26 16:00 GMT]
| | | | | earnestly...entreats | May 26, 2010 |
Couldn't agree more Nesrin.
There are a variety of ways in which we prozians react to no context. There is a veteran answerer's gruff (perfectly justified gruffness of course - and I imagine that Spansh-English translators will know who I am referring too!) but efficient demand for context. There is no doubt a huge amount of "ignore the question if it doesn't provide context", probably the silent majority, and then I use the barrage of questions technique - which occasionally provid... See more Couldn't agree more Nesrin.
There are a variety of ways in which we prozians react to no context. There is a veteran answerer's gruff (perfectly justified gruffness of course - and I imagine that Spansh-English translators will know who I am referring too!) but efficient demand for context. There is no doubt a huge amount of "ignore the question if it doesn't provide context", probably the silent majority, and then I use the barrage of questions technique - which occasionally provides a response!
I don't always have time, or the inclination, to do this, but after so many years working in education, and more recently teaching translation, I suppose this response comes quite naturally. But in the long run it isn't the interests of the translator asking the question which are uppermost in my mind, but my own curiosity - Proz questions are like crossword clues for me, and I just have to have a go at them!
Cheers
Noni ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 18:49
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR
Hi Nesrin,
I fully support your suggestion. In fact, rule 2.4 could be made a lot simpler, "Sufficient context must be provided with each question." That's all we really need. The rest of the rule as it is simply contradicts the rule itself. (We might as well eliminate the rule then.) I'm not sure where this part comes from anyway, "when there is no context..". In my opinion, the only way to have no context is when there is no text, i.e. there is nothing to translate >... See more Hi Nesrin,
I fully support your suggestion. In fact, rule 2.4 could be made a lot simpler, "Sufficient context must be provided with each question." That's all we really need. The rest of the rule as it is simply contradicts the rule itself. (We might as well eliminate the rule then.) I'm not sure where this part comes from anyway, "when there is no context..". In my opinion, the only way to have no context is when there is no text, i.e. there is nothing to translate > in which case there are no difficult terms, either... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | KudoZ rule #2.4 is a guideline | May 26, 2010 |
Hello all,
First note that KudoZ rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_asking/2.4#2.4 is a guideline. Then, it is true that there is always a context and, in fact, this is explained in more detail in FAQ http://www.proz.com/faq/70204#70204 :
There is always some context to provide, such as information about the type of customer (an oil company? a plumber? a dentist? ), the type of document you are translating, the subject, etc. Even in the extreme case of posting an item in a list there is hope
Also, when posting a KudoZ question, askers are encouraged to enter as much information as possible for the term they need help with:
Consider entering as much information as possible for the term. Have in mind that part of the text or statement that surrounds the term you need help with will help colleagues to determine its meaning. Useful information includes type of document/situation in which the term appears, country and dialect, URLs, translations you are considering, etc.
So, rule #2.4 is a guideline just as FAQ http://www.proz.com/faq/70204#70204 and the message shown in the ask a KudoZ question page are. All encourage askers to include in their KudoZ question as much information as they can to get help from colleagues with the translation of any term.
Hope this clarifies.
Kind regards,
Lucia
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| Add a hyperlink? | May 26, 2010 |
I doubt that people all read the FAQs, so maybe a hyperlink to that FAQ could be associated with the sentence "When there is no context", in guideline 2.4?
Stéphanie
| | | | | | | Good idea Stéphanie | May 26, 2010 |
And thanks to Lucia for acting so swiftly on it!
So well done too to Nesrin for setting this in motion.
In the meantime, I plan to continue badgering....
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Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:49
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Lucia and Stephanie!
Edited to add:
There still remains of course the contradiction between "When there is no context" in the guidelines and "There is always some context to provide" in the guidelines. We all agree on the latter of course, so maybe something can be done, maybe t... See more Thanks Lucia and Stephanie!
Edited to add:
There still remains of course the contradiction between "When there is no context" in the guidelines and "There is always some context to provide" in the guidelines. We all agree on the latter of course, so maybe something can be done, maybe to change "no context" to "limited context"?
[Edited at 2010-05-26 21:25 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ildiko Santana
United States
Local time: 18:49
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
MODERATOR
Thanks a lot for the fast and efficient action! I have always admired the responsiveness, flexibility and effectiveness of the ProZ staff. I think the new phrasing is great, and I especially like this part, "Armed with that meaningful context we have a new question" : )
| | | | | Hyperlink-what a great suggestion | May 26, 2010 |
Stéphanie Soudais wrote: I doubt that people all read the FAQs, so maybe a hyperlink to that FAQ could be associated with the sentence "When there is no context", in guideline 2.4? Stéphanie
I think it would be a great thing for Kudoz questions if Askers were given a hyperlink to guidelines they appear to be ignoring, including the guideline urging them to do sufficient research before posting.
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If people break other rules on KudoZ, like being abusive or posting long sentences, they quite rightly get told off, and in some cases their questions get squashed.
But there are no such penalties for wasting others' time by not providing proper context - and so a substantial minority of askers (including some who ask large numbers of questions, and should know better) don't bother.
I think they should have to check a box saying: "I have provided full context, includin... See more If people break other rules on KudoZ, like being abusive or posting long sentences, they quite rightly get told off, and in some cases their questions get squashed.
But there are no such penalties for wasting others' time by not providing proper context - and so a substantial minority of askers (including some who ask large numbers of questions, and should know better) don't bother.
I think they should have to check a box saying: "I have provided full context, including the type of document and at least one full sentence". If they do this and yet fail to provide context, it should be possible to vote the question down. If three people think there is insufficient context to provide a meaningful answer, the question should be removed.
What do you think?
[Edited at 2010-05-26 23:50 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-05-26 23:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:49
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
philgoddard wrote:
I think they should have to check a box saying: "I have provided full context, including the type of document and at least one full sentence". If they do this and yet fail to provide context, it should be possible to vote the question down. If three people think there is insufficient context to provide a meaningful answer, the question should be removed.
I like the idea of a check box and the possibility of voting a question down. Perhaps it's not realistic to ask the asker to provide at least one full sentence, because sometimes people are indeed asked to translate lists of terms. But a simple statement such as "I have entered as much information as possible for the term" should do.
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:49
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | "Required" field - not really required? | May 27, 2010 |
Incidentally, how come the "Explanation" field when asking a question is said to be "required", and yet it's possible to leave it completely blank??
(as seen in two recent questions in my language pair)
[Edited at 2010-05-27 12:06 GMT]
| | | | | A link to KudoZ rules and guidelines is included in most KudoZ pages | May 27, 2010 |
writeaway wrote:
I think it would be a great thing for Kudoz questions if Askers were given a hyperlink to guidelines they appear to be ignoring, including the guideline urging them to do sufficient research before posting.
Note that most KudoZ pages already contain a link to KudoZ rules and guidelines. This link should be visible below the menu that is available in the left side of KudoZ pages. Please let me know if you cannot see it.
philgoddard wrote:
If people break other rules on KudoZ, like being abusive or posting long sentences, they quite rightly get told off, and in some cases their questions get squashed.
But there are no such penalties for wasting others' time by not providing proper context - and so a substantial minority of askers (including some who ask large numbers of questions, and should know better) don't bother.
I think they should have to check a box saying: "I have provided full context, including the type of document and at least one full sentence". If they do this and yet fail to provide context, it should be possible to vote the question down. If three people think there is insufficient context to provide a meaningful answer, the question should be removed.
What do you think?
As explained in my previous reply, providing context for a term included in a KudoZ question is a guideline and not a rule. Users can always refrain from answering if they consider the context provided is not enough or else if no context is specified.
Regards,
Lucia
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