| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Kudoz system - a beginner's guide Autor wątku: Aleksandr Okunev (X)
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Kim Metzger 
Meksyk
Local time: 19:48
niemiecki > angielski
| Beginner's guide to KudoZ | Feb 23, 2006 |
Kirill Semenov wrote:
Google is great, it's a precious source of knowledge, but please, people, use it wisely, not purely formally, as if it is an endless set of non-coherent words.
Yes, Kirill. I actually think things have improved since KudoZ rule 4.6 was amended to discourage entering pages of search engine results:
4.6 - The explanation box is for providing justification of your answer. The reference boxes are for links to online resources that the asker and others may consult for confirmation. Comments such as 'Studied medicine for 3 years' should be entered in the explanation box, not in the reference boxes. Do not post an entire page of search engine results inside the explanation box. Enter Web links instead, preferably in the reference boxes provided.
Here's something I wrote several months ago:
One trend has developed in some language pairs more than in others. This trend is to copy pages of Google hits that prove nothing other than that the proposed target term probably exists. It has practically become the norm in some language pairs. It involves skipping steps that would allow someone else to get an answer in before you can and not even opening the links to evaluate the hits. Here's an example of what I mean:
Hypothetical question: Portuguese to English
Disputar a eleição
Within two minutes the answerer submits "to dispute an election" and provides a page of Google hits showing that the phrase "dispute an election" exists in English and might even add: "supported by 1 million Google hits!
... The Alliance of Democrats has attempted to use existing legal means to dispute the election results only to be shut out by a process controlled by the ...
www.iri.org/9-26-03-iripr.asp - 11k - Cached - Similar pages
Ann Harrison: The Ohio Recount
... of Democracy - are plunging into a tough fight to recount and dispute the election in Ohio which handed President Bush twenty decisive electoral votes. ...
www.counterpunch.org/harrison12082004.html - 68k - Cached -
... "I do not dispute the election returns," said Alan Fox. "The city's electronic file which we purchased from the city after receiving assurances that it ...
www.wisconsinvoters.com/about-33.shtml - 6k - Cached - Similar pages
Trouble is, in this context the Portuguese phrase means to be a candidate in an election, to compete for, contend for not to dispute the election. Here it was a false cognate. The answerer immediately got agrees from other non-natives who were just as ignorant as the answerer.
Sometimes, just showing a phrase/term exists, showing how it's used and in what context, etc. is all that's needed. The answerer is a well-known (among KudoZ colleagues) specialist in the field and we have learned to trust him or her. But this technique has been adopted by members who aren't reliable specialists in the field or in the languages involved. It has become almost the standard way of answering questions in some language pairs and it is a plague that's ruining things for professionals.
| | | | | Another "must" for answerers | Feb 23, 2006 |
If anybody dares to answer a question that you want to answer (either before you or after you), enter a "disagree" and pick an argument with all of the rest. (Come on, you're a language expert, surely you can find something to argue about). This proves that you are passionate about language, so you are sure to get the points. After all, you know it all better than anyone else, don't you?
If you are having a particularly soft-hearted day, you might exceptionally moderate this to a "neutral"... See more If anybody dares to answer a question that you want to answer (either before you or after you), enter a "disagree" and pick an argument with all of the rest. (Come on, you're a language expert, surely you can find something to argue about). This proves that you are passionate about language, so you are sure to get the points. After all, you know it all better than anyone else, don't you?
If you are having a particularly soft-hearted day, you might exceptionally moderate this to a "neutral".
Never ever agree with an answer that competes with yours. You know it all and the rest of the world are idiots, so your calling in life is to show everybody else how uniquely and splendidly right you are. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:48
angielski > rosyjski
NOWY TEMAT | Kurt, you made me proud and nervous | Feb 24, 2006 |
Kurt Porter wrote: ...eloquent...
When I read your account I felt flattered out of my senses, thanks! Then I checked my post and immediately spotted a few typos (one, in the title, was corrected by Proz staff), and a heap of other discrepancies. What a shame! Next time I'll start with a series of Kudoz questions (Ru-En) and then a job "Proofreading Job - proofreading of my Proz forum post" in order not to let anything cast a shadow on My Greatness. Thanks a lot, folks, for showing me I am not alone wishing to have genuinely reasonable and helpful Kudoz.
Cheers,
Aleksandr
| | | | Kurt Porter
Local time: 06:48
rosyjski > angielski
+ ...
| Stop! You're Killing Me. :) | Feb 24, 2006 |
[quote]Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
Kurt Porter wrote: ...eloquent...
When I read your account I felt flattered out of my senses, thanks! Then I checked my post and immediately spotted a few typos (one, in the title, was corrected by Proz staff), and a heap of other discrepancies. What a shame!
Don't sweat the small stuff and have a great weekend!
[Edited at 2006-02-24 07:43]
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| Another rule for answering | Feb 24, 2006 |
If, while you are sleeping, someone on another continent posts an answer (annoying thing about timezones) that is actually correct, post the same answer but change just one small word or verb form, and use the highest confidence level so your answer will appear on top.
Refer to some obscure grammar rule as an explanation (or make one up, nobody remembers all those silly grammar rules anyway).
Your buddies will certainly vote for you (after all, didn't you vote for ... See more If, while you are sleeping, someone on another continent posts an answer (annoying thing about timezones) that is actually correct, post the same answer but change just one small word or verb form, and use the highest confidence level so your answer will appear on top.
Refer to some obscure grammar rule as an explanation (or make one up, nobody remembers all those silly grammar rules anyway).
Your buddies will certainly vote for you (after all, didn't you vote for their answers in DRAM SIMM engineering, when you don't even know what that stands for?), and you will show everyone your mastery of grammar as well as translation. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:48
angielski > rosyjski
NOWY TEMAT | Which reminds me... | Feb 24, 2006 |
Kurt Porter wrote: Don't sweat the small stuff and have a great weekend!
Thenks a lort, Koort, you remaindid mee of whot it wos, steirring annoiinglee in the beck of my maind. Thees is nort as outraigeous as in Kudoss, that's whai I have fogortten it. Hauever, I think whenn I get anather very borring job I cuold wrait anathor gaide nless somewan haz olready dan it.
"Proz.com Forums - The Beginner's Guide"
Introduction
One must always remember that Proz forums are in fact, and have always been a multi-user extension of the profiles of real professionals.
1. Never make a post unless it is going to enhance your professional image and attract potential clients.
....
43. Whenever possible, mention that half of your furniture is 450 years old and the other half is brand new. Professionals know that furniture is the essential factor in translation process.
....
99.
But that's another thread...
BTW, Kuurt, yuu owe mee 15 paunds spent on prufreeding this pozt!
Aleksandr
[Edited at 2006-02-24 10:35]
| | | | Christine Andersen
Dania
Local time: 03:48
Członek ProZ.com
od 2003
duński > angielski
+ ...
| The Internet is the world's biggest graffitti wall... | Feb 24, 2006 |
I was told this several years ago, before most private individuals had e-mail or internet connections!
The trouble is that even though it has come a long way and there are some brilliant resources out there, the graffitti is still there too, and more is added every minute.
Well, I'd better stop in that case!
[Edited at 2006-02-24 10:... See more I was told this several years ago, before most private individuals had e-mail or internet connections!
The trouble is that even though it has come a long way and there are some brilliant resources out there, the graffitti is still there too, and more is added every minute.
Well, I'd better stop in that case!
[Edited at 2006-02-24 10:53] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Two sides of the same coin | Feb 24, 2006 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
The trouble is that even though it has come a long way and there are some brilliant resources out there, the graffitti is still there too, and more is added every minute.
On the other hand, more and more brilliant resources are added every minute, too.
The point is to separate the wheat from the chaff, or, in other words, to get rid of the white noise.
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Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:48
angielski > rosyjski
NOWY TEMAT | Graffitti fit nicely sometimes | Feb 24, 2006 |
the graffitti is still there too, and more is added every minute.
But not on the walls of the University library hall.
Where does Kudoz rank, to continue the analogy?
Stay well
Aleksandr
--
| | | | Mwananchi
Kenia
Local time: 04:48
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006
angielski > suahili
+ ...
I am fairly new to Proz but, I think blending in is important. Wait for everybody to give their answer then give an agreeable answer a summary of the likely ones above. This will please both the asker and answerers as this proves your congenial nature and mediation skills a trait likely to win many points.
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:48
angielski > rosyjski
NOWY TEMAT
Answering.
In 'explanation' field just type "worked for Microsoft" if the question is about software, even if the question is about an ultrasonic scanner setup utility manual. Try to use only Big Names, one for every field you answer, translators working for companies other than global players are not real professionals by any means.
Brushing your teeth with new Colgate is working as a Colgate beta-tester, likewise with other companies.
---
Stay well,
... See more Answering.
In 'explanation' field just type "worked for Microsoft" if the question is about software, even if the question is about an ultrasonic scanner setup utility manual. Try to use only Big Names, one for every field you answer, translators working for companies other than global players are not real professionals by any means.
Brushing your teeth with new Colgate is working as a Colgate beta-tester, likewise with other companies.
---
Stay well,
Aleksandr ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kirill Semenov
Ukraina
Local time: 04:48
Członek ProZ.com
od 2004
angielski > rosyjski
+ ...
| Laugh or not | Feb 24, 2006 |
Aleksandr Okunev wrote:
Brushing your teeth with new Colgate is working as a Colgate beta-tester, likewise with other companies.
Aleks, I used to read very old kudoZ questions when I had a spare time, and in 2001 in Eng-Rus pairs it was not a rare case when answerers typed "personal experience" in the reference fields in their answers. It looked really `reliable' - but it seemed to work 5 years ago in kudoZ.
[Edited at 2006-02-24 16:47]
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Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:48
angielski > rosyjski
NOWY TEMAT | You missed the point a bit | Feb 25, 2006 |
Kirill Semenov wrote: ... answerers typed "personal experience" ... it seemed to work 5 years ago in kudoZ.
If I get you right, Kirill.
A long time ago, when I was in Pakistan, I translated this dialogue:
- Mr Mahmood, flame monitoring system is OK!
- How can you prove it, Mr Ivanov?
- Here's the report by Siemens engineers!
- Fine, Mr Ivanov, but the contract says everything should be according to USSR standards. [smiling] You have VERY good standards!
What I mean is that 'stardom' of your clientele does not necessarily mean you're a star in translation.
Stay well
Aleksandr
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-=~~
| | | | Gina W
USA
Local time: 21:48
Członek ProZ.com
od 2003
francuski > angielski
| Another good point | Feb 26, 2006 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
what I find most abhorrent, is the submission of an answer with tons of Google hits to back it up but nothing to show that the proposed term is also a good translation of the source term. The only thing the answerer is doing is showing that his proposal exists in the target language.
I agree. I mean, so what if the target term exists all over the net? That's nice, but it doesn't necessary indicate that it is the correct translation of the source term, you know?
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 04:48
angielski > rosyjski
NOWY TEMAT | May and June's hits | Jun 7, 2006 |
In my Language pair it is "Answering" item 3.
Think it up and confurm with Google!
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