| Страниц в теме: [1 2 3] > | Asker directing questions specifically to ProZ.com members. Автор темы: Sormane Gomes
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Sormane Gomes
США
Local time: 03:12
португальский => английский
+ ...
I happened to open one of the questions and saw this:
The asker has directed this question specifically to ProZ.com users who:
... work in this pair (Your profile shows that you do)
... report a "working" level of expertise in the subject field (You have)
... are ProZ.com members (You do not appear to be) Join ProZ.com >
Although you do not meet the criteria, you may suggest a translation if you like
I guess because I am no longer a payin... See more I happened to open one of the questions and saw this:
The asker has directed this question specifically to ProZ.com users who:
... work in this pair (Your profile shows that you do)
... report a "working" level of expertise in the subject field (You have)
... are ProZ.com members (You do not appear to be) Join ProZ.com >
Although you do not meet the criteria, you may suggest a translation if you like
I guess because I am no longer a paying member for less than a week now - I am what they call a “user” - I have been noticing these things.
I fail to understand why an asker is given the option to choose help from paying members only. It makes sense to me to request someone who works in the pair and has experience in the field, but what is a paying member going to offer that a non-paying member can’t in that particular situation?
Could someone enlighten me on this?
Thanks.
Sormane F. Gomes
P.S. This is not meant to start an argument. I genuinely would like to know. How much was this a decision made by ProZ or members and what was the reasoning behind it?
[Edited at 2006-07-15 02:14] ▲ Collapse
| | | | PRen (X) 
Local time: 03:12
французский => английский
+ ...
| IT's quite clear.. | Jul 14, 2006 |
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:
I happened to open one of the questions and saw this:
The asker has directed this question specifically to ProZ.com users who:
... work in this pair (Your profile shows that you do)
... report a "working" level of expertise in the subject field (You have)
... are ProZ.com members (You do not appear to be) Join ProZ.com >
Although you do not meet the criteria, you may suggest a translation if you like
I guess because I am no longer a paying member for less than a week now - I am what they call a “user” - I have been noticing these things.
I fail to understand why an asker is given the option to choose help from paying members only. It makes sense to me to request someone who works in the pair and has experience in the field, but what is a paying member going to offer that a non-paying member can’t in that particular situation?
Could someone enlighten me on this?
Thanks.
Sormane F. Gomes
P.S. This not meant to start an argument. I genuinely would like to know. How much was this a decision made by ProZ or members and what was the reasoning behind it?
[Edited at 2006-07-14 23:30]
I think the reasoning behind it is quite obvious - get people to pay for proz memberships by implying that they're missing out on jobs unless they do. I don't know how site management presents to outsourcers, but I have always deplored their suggestion that by paying a hundred bucks, you're a better translator. Puleeze!
Paula
| | | | Marijke Singer
Испания
Local time: 09:12
Член ProZ.com
голландский => английский
+ ...
| Members and users | Jul 15, 2006 |
I think that the powers that be believe that paying members are more reliable translators. They have committed themselves by paying and therefore whatever they may say has more value. You have a stable translator.
I think this is the reasoning behind the option but of course it is flawed. You could also argue that if you can afford to pay for membership you are earning so much that you do not have sufficient time to provide good answers. I am just being devil's advocate here.
... See more I think that the powers that be believe that paying members are more reliable translators. They have committed themselves by paying and therefore whatever they may say has more value. You have a stable translator.
I think this is the reasoning behind the option but of course it is flawed. You could also argue that if you can afford to pay for membership you are earning so much that you do not have sufficient time to provide good answers. I am just being devil's advocate here.
I would like to know why you, Sormane, have decided not to be a paying customer if you do not mind sharing this information (my e-mail address is: [email protected]). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Monika Coulson
Local time: 01:12
Член ProZ.com c 2001
английский => албанский
+ ...
ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА | It is an option given to askers | Jul 15, 2006 |
Dear Sormane,
This is just an option given to askers. ProZ.com does not force anyone to choose this option, but it puts this option on the table, for those who might want to use it. There are askers who have made complaints in the past due to getting too many answers, from both groups: the professional/reliable/full-time translators and the so-called non-professional/not-so-reliable translators. (These are the not terms that I or the site would use, but I have heard people use them.) Now, ... See more Dear Sormane,
This is just an option given to askers. ProZ.com does not force anyone to choose this option, but it puts this option on the table, for those who might want to use it. There are askers who have made complaints in the past due to getting too many answers, from both groups: the professional/reliable/full-time translators and the so-called non-professional/not-so-reliable translators. (These are the not terms that I or the site would use, but I have heard people use them.) Now, there are professionals, such as you, who choose to not be paying members and that is fine (I personally know of several professional and very good translators that are not paying members at this time.) However, please bear in mind that it is more likely that the so-called non-professionals are not paying members of this site. It is up to the asker if they want to include answers from non-paying members or not. If it was me, I would include everyone, since to me, everyone's opinion is an opinion that is worth reading. Whether I use all of those opinions or not, is a different matter .
My 2 cents,
Monika
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:
I fail to understand why an asker is given the option to choose help from paying members only.
[Edited at 2006-07-15 01:18] ▲ Collapse
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| Translation skills or lack of them have nothing at all to do with paying to use this site | Jul 15, 2006 |
Monika Coulson wrote: However, please bear in mind that it is more likely for the so-called non-professionals to not be paying members of this site. Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:
I fail to understand why an asker is given the option to choose help from paying members only. [Edited at 2006-07-15 00:36]
Many people now becoming "members" are people trying to get a foothold in the field of translation. So many new members are also beginners or even people trying to become beginners.
Many skilled professional translators choose not to pay, as Monika says. It's not a question of reliablilty, stability or anything else. The names were changed from paying and non-paying members to "members" and "users". This is sheer marketing. After all, apart from money, there is no other requirement for being a "member" of the site. I was surprised to see questions being limited to "paying" members-since some of the very best people around are not paying members-some have never been and some were but are no longer.
I find it ludicrous to equate Plat membership with professionalism or translation skills. Becoming a paying "member" is a question of being good with a credit card or similar purchasing skills. And that's all.
| | | | PRen (X)
Local time: 03:12
французский => английский
+ ...
Monika Coulson wrote:
However, please bear in mind that it is more likely that the so-called non-professionals are not paying members of this site.
[Edited at 2006-07-15 01:18]
Is this fairly preposterous statement based on a scientific study? Perhaps the exact opposite is true: numerous raw beginners paying for a membership in the hopes of getting work because they have no experience, no clients and don't know how to get either.
Paula
Sorry writeaway, I've just realized I repeated some of what you said - my apologies (and agreement).
[Edited at 2006-07-15 02:17]
| | | | Eva T
английский => албанский
+ ...
| Refresh button? | Jul 15, 2006 |
Judging from the time when you posted this comment and the following one, there are eight minutes difference. I am thinking you probably hit the Refresh button 8 minutes after you posted the first comment and there you go, your computer remmembered the last action it performed and redid it.
Eva
writeaway wrote:
Bug in system?
[Edited at 2006-07-15 01:02]
| | | | Eva T
английский => албанский
+ ...
| If askers use it | Jul 15, 2006 |
If askers use it, to me this is a clear fact that they want this feature and like it too. Easy folks,
Eva
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Eva T
английский => албанский
+ ...
| The starter of this thread has only asked a simple question | Jul 15, 2006 |
I am not a paying member now and it does not ofend me a bit that some askers do not want my help. (Not my loss!) But you are going on a very thin ice area when you say "numerous raw beginners paying for a membership in the hopes of getting work because they have no experience, no clients and don't know how to get either."
You are offending thousands paying members of this site by saying that.
Are you using this thread to justifiy something or so? Because the starter o... See more I am not a paying member now and it does not ofend me a bit that some askers do not want my help. (Not my loss!) But you are going on a very thin ice area when you say "numerous raw beginners paying for a membership in the hopes of getting work because they have no experience, no clients and don't know how to get either."
You are offending thousands paying members of this site by saying that.
Are you using this thread to justifiy something or so? Because the starter of this thread has only asked a simple question and states it clearly "This is not meant to start an argument". He asked, he got some opinions. It is so ifunny to see how some people try to use some situations...
Eva
Paula Rennie wrote:
Perhaps the exact opposite is true: numerous raw beginners paying for a membership in the hopes of getting work because they have no experience, no clients and don't know how to get either.
Paula
Sorry writeaway, I've just realized I repeated some of what you said - my apologies (and agreement).
[Edited at 2006-07-15 02:17]
[Edited at 2006-07-15 02:41] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Fan Gao
Австралия
Local time: 17:12
английский => китайский
+ ...
| they come and go.... | Jul 15, 2006 |
I've only been a member here for a few months and in that time I've seen numerous "users" come and go.
As a paying member myself, even though it's great to get alot of varied opinions on matters I'd place more value on opinions from people who are members (whether full or partial) as it kind of shows a commitment and represents they are serious translators with staying power etc and not just some fly by night who will be here today and gone tomorrow.
I guess it's human ... See more I've only been a member here for a few months and in that time I've seen numerous "users" come and go.
As a paying member myself, even though it's great to get alot of varied opinions on matters I'd place more value on opinions from people who are members (whether full or partial) as it kind of shows a commitment and represents they are serious translators with staying power etc and not just some fly by night who will be here today and gone tomorrow.
I guess it's human nature:)
Mark ▲ Collapse
| | | | Irene N
США
Local time: 02:12
английский => русский
+ ...
| Please, help me out here | Jul 15, 2006 |
Chinese Concept wrote:
serious translators with staying power etc and not just some fly by night who will be here today and gone tomorrow.
Mark
Excuse me? Are we into stable marriages and moral make-up here? What if a serious translator comes and goes?:-) Shall we denounce unconscientious camp-followers?:-)
No argument in mind:-)
I have renewed my membership lately because I felt like abusing too much forum space:-). I'm in a chatty mood and love to pay for myself. That's all. We'll see how it goes... No jobs for me here - the pay via Proz in my pair won't feed 2 cats and 1 car...
[Edited at 2006-07-15 07:59]
| | | | Patricia Lane
Франция
Local time: 09:12
французский => английский
+ ...
| emperor's clothes | Jul 15, 2006 |
Hi Mark,
I've been very much in agreement with a number of your other postings that illustrated your values and business ethics. On this subject, however, I think that the link between "a paid subscriber" and "commitment" or "serious translator" is a lot harder to make. There are many other ways of getting a sense of a translator's seriousness or commitment than a paid membership.
As a translator, I run a business. Therefore, when I choose to invest, I look at the RO... See more Hi Mark,
I've been very much in agreement with a number of your other postings that illustrated your values and business ethics. On this subject, however, I think that the link between "a paid subscriber" and "commitment" or "serious translator" is a lot harder to make. There are many other ways of getting a sense of a translator's seriousness or commitment than a paid membership.
As a translator, I run a business. Therefore, when I choose to invest, I look at the ROI to decide where my (finite) resources can have the best impact either on continuing to develop my business or to provide even better services to my clients.
At this juncture, I am still not convinced that paying to become a "Platinum member" is the best use of those 100 some odd euros.
The reasons are very simple. Compared to a plain vanilla "user" status, membership would offer me:
- immediate access to member-restricted jobs - but the majority of jobs on proz are below my minimum rate and in all likelihood I would not bid for them anyway.
- access to the BB - but the information contained in my mind is too limited to be really useful. In any event, before taking on a project, it is wise to check out the prospect and to proceed with a job only with a PO in hand.
- I would have hoped that there would be a difference in the speed with which support tickets are answered for members, however apparently that is not the case. A paying member of proz and I submitted nearly identical support tickets over 3 weeks ago, neither one of us has received an answer (however, marketing emails to get me to sign up with proz, to which i responded, do get an extrememy speedy response).
- the recent debate around the new feedback feature has kind of turned me off. I share the concern expressed by many about data being collected/kept in cyberspace without my being able to control it.
Nevertheless, as a non-paying simple user, I enjoy proz for the exchanges on the forum, I have fun trying to help fellow translators with kudoz questions, and have met some really nifty people (in the flesh too!) through proz and that is terrific.
Does the fact that I have not "gone platinum" make me a less committed or serious translator? I'd rather let my clients decide that one!
Cheers,
Patricia ▲ Collapse
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Jerzy Czopik
Германия
Local time: 09:12
Член ProZ.com c 2003
польский => немецкий
+ ...
| Just think of the possibly simplest reason | Jul 15, 2006 |
Giving us the platform for asking and answering KudoZ, discussing on fora and so on requires harware, software and manpower. And I must admit that I cannot imagine you can get this somwhere for nothing. Servers are quite expensive and they need maintenance, which is even more expensive. So paying members are in fact those who make this all possible. In my opinion ProZ could not exist anymore without the members.
Regards
Jerzy
| | | | | yes-but this has nothing to do with a person's skills as translator | Jul 15, 2006 |
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
Giving us the platform for asking and answering KudoZ, discussing on fora and so on requires harware, software and manpower. And I must admit that I cannot imagine you can get this somwhere for nothing. Servers are quite expensive and they need maintenance, which is even more expensive. So paying members are in fact those who make this all possible. In my opinion ProZ could not exist anymore without the members.
Regards
Jerzy
No one is 'against' the idea of having or being paying members at all.
What is being debated here is, does one suddenly turn into a better, more reliable and more professional translator just by paying for Plat membership? I really don't think so.
So the option Askers now have of selecting 'members only' to answer is nice from a marketing point of view but rather self-defeating if one focuses on the actual purpose of KudoZ questions: to get the best and most professional help possible.
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Германия
Local time: 09:12
Член ProZ.com c 2003
польский => немецкий
+ ...
| This is polemic | Jul 15, 2006 |
And I´m not good in polemics.
Nevertheless, let us assume this has only marketing purposes and is aimed to get more paying members. Would then be something wrong about it?
I do not see, where the option for limiting the question to "members" does state, that they are more professional? Did you read something similar somwhere in the options? I mean, if the user click on this option, is there any statement, that the questions will than be answered by professionals? I do not see... See more And I´m not good in polemics.
Nevertheless, let us assume this has only marketing purposes and is aimed to get more paying members. Would then be something wrong about it?
I do not see, where the option for limiting the question to "members" does state, that they are more professional? Did you read something similar somwhere in the options? I mean, if the user click on this option, is there any statement, that the questions will than be answered by professionals? I do not see such statement.
I have written this already in another forum and mentioned it here. The paying members make ProZ physically possible. Moderators help to keep it running and members and users fill it with life.
Many skilled professional translators choose not to pay, as Monika says. It's not a question of reliablilty, stability or anything else. The names were changed from paying and non-paying members to "members" and "users". This is sheer marketing. After all, apart from money, there is no other requirement for being a "member" of the site. I was surprised to see questions being limited to "paying" members-since some of the very best people around are not paying members-some have never been and some were but are no longer.
As you write here, yo do not see any other reason as money for becoming a *member* of the site. This is a real pitty, as I would hope you might also chose "supporting this great site to serve us in the future".
My personal reasons for becoming a member were very simple: I´m using this service and I want to suppot it. As simple as that.
Let me say this in this way: there is a bunch of people, who pay for this playground and aanother bunch of people who come and use it for free on the cost of the payers. Maybe this sound rude, but it is not. My intention is not to hurt anyone. But just analyse facts - and you will see I´m right. And please do not compare ProZ to other venues. We are not speaking about them here. We are only speaking about ProZ.
Regards
Jerzy
PS
Please do not feel offended, as it is not my intention to offend anyone. My command of English is limited, so possibly my language cannot express exactly what I´m meaning. ▲ Collapse
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