| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Off topic: Do you know of a language that places surnames ahead of first names? Thread poster: Viktoria Gimbe
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Viktoria Gimbe 
Canada
Local time: 18:07
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
This is really interesting - it's exactly what I was trying to figure out. It seems I am not the only one who's been wondering about this...
Thanks for the links, Shirley!
| | | | | Korean, as mentioned previously | Nov 12, 2008 |
I can definitely confirm this custom in Korea. It seems that half the people I know or read about are a Kim or a Lee, and there are actually only a handful of surnames in use (about ten or so, but I don't know the exact number). Interestingly enough, as a foreigner, my name has never been written this way but always as first name + surname, though it is transcribed (I always check to see if they didn't leave out my y or z).
[Edited at 2008-11-12 11:48]
| | | | | Off-topic: Pure Japanese??? | Nov 14, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
What I mean by Japanese writing system is the writing system that is purely of Japanese origin. This would mean katakana and hiragana. Modern day Japanese writing isn't really Japanese, because many of the characters used are of Chinese origin. In that sense, Japanese as it is wrote is being forgotten.
Excuse me, but - what???
Katakana and hiragana were derived from Chinese ideograms. How can you say "Modern day Japanese writing isn't really Japanese, because many of the characters used are of Chinese origin"?
Of course they are of Chinese origin, they have always been of Chinese origin...
"In that sense, Japanese as it is wrote is being forgotten." - I am totally surprised by this statement. Every language is developing, and surely, current Japanese is not like ancient Japanese, it is not even like a 100 years ago, but the difference is not in the writing system, more in the vocabulary and use of spoken language - just as with many other languages. The writing system is not dying or anything.
Here is a short history of the Japanese writing system:
http://www.asahi.ch/english/japanese_writing_system.php
Here you can see how hiragana was derived from kanji:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/japanese_hiragana.htm
[Módosítva: 2008-11-14 06:23 GMT]
| | | | Viktoria Gimbe
Canada
Local time: 18:07
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | Well, I guess I just learned something | Nov 14, 2008 |
It was my understanding, based on my fairly limited knowledge of the subject, that the origins of Japanese writing were Japanese, and that the Japanese later borrowed from the Chinese. However, based on your links, Katalin (thanks!), it seems that Japanese writing never really was Japanese. Am I correct in assuming that all of Japanese writing, in all eras, was based on Chinese symbols? That is, that there never really was a Japanese writing system? It would seem so in light of the links you pro... See more It was my understanding, based on my fairly limited knowledge of the subject, that the origins of Japanese writing were Japanese, and that the Japanese later borrowed from the Chinese. However, based on your links, Katalin (thanks!), it seems that Japanese writing never really was Japanese. Am I correct in assuming that all of Japanese writing, in all eras, was based on Chinese symbols? That is, that there never really was a Japanese writing system? It would seem so in light of the links you provided.
Funny how we learn new things in places we expected to learn something totally different!
Edit: By the way, Katalin, your post is not off topic - at least, not to me. If it weren't for such posts, threads would go where we don't want them to - and lead to false conclusions.
[Edited at 2008-11-14 17:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Anja Weggel
Local time: 00:07
Member (2007)
English to German
| Bavarian /Austrian dialects | Nov 17, 2008 |
efreitag wrote:
Dear Viktoria,
Bavarian (German: Bairisch), a dialect commonly spoken in parts of southern Germany, uses this naming scheme as well. I'm not sure whether other dialects of southern Germany share this peculiarity...
Edited for typos.
[Bearbeitet am 2008-11-08 07:04]
[Bearbeitet am 2008-11-08 08:09]
I agree here... the Bavarian dialect as well as some Austrian dialects use the format "family name, first name". However, this is usually not written and not "official". My aunts and uncles near Nuremberg still refer to their neighbour as "die Schmidt Renate" but would not write that on an envelope for example. It also is more common in rural areas, i.e. it is more or less an old tradition which will probably be gone in the next generation(s).
Regards
Anja
| | | | Verse 5B (X)
Local time: 00:07
English to Serbian
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Hi Viktoria,
It exists in the Serbian language, in case it is about listings, directories with personal names and alike, that are in alphabetical order. In this case, the rule is to follow the capital letter of a surname, and place it ahead of a first name, in alphabetical order ( on a list, e.g. students, phone number owners, employees, translators lists etc).
Otherwise, the first name goes ahead.
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