| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Update on changes made to the ProZ.com job posting system, 29 April, 2010 Thread poster: Jared Tabor
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| Some insight on average quotes per job | Apr 30, 2010 |
Hello all,
I'm posting here a graph which outlines the basic trend for average quotes for jobs, from May 2008 to present. Below that is the list of language pairs for posted jobs for April, along with the average quote per job for those pairs. Note that these numbers are only for job postings which used the "Submit quote" method, where the quotes are submitted and received by the outsourcer through the site.
Average quotes per job, May 2008 - present: ... See more Hello all,
I'm posting here a graph which outlines the basic trend for average quotes for jobs, from May 2008 to present. Below that is the list of language pairs for posted jobs for April, along with the average quote per job for those pairs. Note that these numbers are only for job postings which used the "Submit quote" method, where the quotes are submitted and received by the outsourcer through the site.
Average quotes per job, May 2008 - present:
Average quotes per job by language pair, April:
English to French: 11.2 quotes per job
German to English: 7.5 quotes per job
English to Spanish: 24.8 quotes per job
English to German: 9 quotes per job
French to English: 11.2 quotes per job
English to Chinese: 9.7 quotes per job
English to Portuguese: 14.7 quotes per job
English to Italian: 22.6 quotes per job
Spanish to English: 13.2 quotes per job
German to French: 3.7 quotes per job
Italian to English: 7 quotes per job
English to Arabic: 9.6 quotes per job
English to Russian: 18 quotes per job
English to Dutch: 7.3 quotes per job
English to Japanese: 6.4 quotes per job
English to Swedish: 8.1 quotes per job
Portuguese to English: 6.9 quotes per job
English to Polish: 7.6 quotes per job
Russian to English: 7.3 quotes per job
English to Korean: 4.7 quotes per job
Arabic to English: 6.2 quotes per job
French to German: 5.7 quotes per job
Dutch to English: 4.7 quotes per job
English to Norwegian: 4.5 quotes per job
Chinese to English: 6.5 quotes per job
English: 5.7 quotes per job
English to Finnish: 4 quotes per job
Italian to German: 2.5 quotes per job
German to Italian: 9.3 quotes per job
Japanese to English: 6.5 quotes per job
German to Spanish: 6.6 quotes per job
English to Turkish: 11.7 quotes per job
Spanish to French: 10.4 quotes per job
English to Danish: 4.5 quotes per job
Polish to English: 5 quotes per job
French to Spanish: 18.1 quotes per job
English to Romanian: 9.4 quotes per job
Korean to English: 3.9 quotes per job
Italian to French: 6.1 quotes per job
English to Croatian: 6.7 quotes per job ▲ Collapse
| | | | Luca Tutino 
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Very interesting information | Apr 30, 2010 |
Dear Jared,
Thank you for this information! (And for the entire effort of course.)
Two different questions come in my mind in connection with this thread:
1. I noticed that some well represented language combinations were not included (FR>IT and NL>IT for instance). Does this just mean that in April there where no posted jobs with reply trhough ProZ in the combinations not included?
2. Will the potential client any way see (or discover) what ch... See more Dear Jared,
Thank you for this information! (And for the entire effort of course.)
Two different questions come in my mind in connection with this thread:
1. I noticed that some well represented language combinations were not included (FR>IT and NL>IT for instance). Does this just mean that in April there where no posted jobs with reply trhough ProZ in the combinations not included?
2. Will the potential client any way see (or discover) what choice I made about budget visibility?
Luca
[Edited at 2010-04-30 23:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 15:17
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
2. Will the potential client any way see (or discover) what choice I made about budget visibility?
Why do you think a client who posts budget information would care about it?
And if he/she could possibly find it out, would it change your strategy?
Kind regards,
Attila
[Edited at 2010-05-01 11:26 GMT]
| | | | | very interesting... | May 1, 2010 |
en>sp and en>it are the language combinations with the most quotes... it's quite astonishing that en>it ranks so high, given the number of Spanish speaking people in the world and Italian speaking people...
[Edited at 2010-05-01 11:08 GMT]
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Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 09:17
English to Spanish
+ ...
| I have the same question | May 1, 2010 |
Attila Piróth wrote:
3.) Can you also clarify why the legal, rock-bottom minimum for any kind of job is a good benchmark? Was this specific sum requested by freelancers – in whose interest this job posting system is undergoing this update? If anyone who requested this is around: could you explain me the motivations? For example, outsourcer and/or translator located is the US: is an hourly fee of USD 7.25 a relevant benchmark?
Kind regards,
Attila
I was left dumbstruck by this.
Andrea
[Edited at 2010-05-01 21:53 GMT]
| | | | | misread Jared's post | May 2, 2010 |
so my post is no longer applicable... sorry!
[Edited at 2010-05-02 08:39 GMT]
| | | | | About minimum wages | May 3, 2010 |
Attila Piróth wrote:
2.) Also: is it a net sum or a gross sum? For example, in France the minimum hourly wage (SMIC) for salaried workers a bit under 9 euros per hour net; as taxes are quote high, a freelancer needs to invoice about the double to get the same net hourly income. Is this taken into account?
3.) Can you also clarify why the legal, rock-bottom minimum for any kind of job is a good benchmark? Was this specific sum requested by freelancers – in whose interest this job posting system is undergoing this update? If anyone who requested this is around: could you explain me the motivations? For example, outsourcer and/or translator located is the US: is an hourly fee of USD 7.25 a relevant benchmark?
Kind regards,
Attila
Thank you Attila for raising these points, I fully agree with you.
As for minimum wages, in France a cleaner would be paid 9 € net per hour (cost for the employer : around 14.5 €, incluiding all social charges), and a student giving tuitions to a secondary school child about 14 € (cost for the employer : around 23 €). So the minimum wages are not relevant, the total cost should be taken into account as a bare minimum.
On top of this, we are supposed to be skilled and competent, so how can we charge less that 30 € per hour/0.1 € per word (for 300 words per hour) (without VAT) ? Translation is not a commodity, we have to make it clear. We cannot stop customers/agencies to set low rates and find someone ready to accept these rates, but we can refuse to work for them, and keep explaining to the end customer and the general public what translation is really about.
To cheer you up a bit but still have a thorough look at our own practices :
http://provenwrite.wordpress.com/about/twelve-step-program-for-self-injuring-translators/
and more seriously : http://www.sfmtraduction.com/blog/commodity-translation-and-why-it-doesnt-work-for-marketing-communications/
Kind regards
Leïla
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| I would like to know if and how our choices are presented to the potential clients | May 3, 2010 |
Attila Piróth wrote:
2. Will the potential client any way see (or discover) what choice I made about budget visibility?
Why do you think a client who posts budget information would care about it? And if he/she could possibly find it out, would it change your strategy?
I find it quite difficult to see the relevance and the logic of this option of making the budget invisible to myself.
Initially I thought the choice about budget visibility had been introduced as one of the measures intended at educating the clients (eliminate the potential for the ProZ.com job posting platform to be used to "popularize" low rates, etc.) But how would this work on the client side, if the clients are not even aware of our choices? Is this just a measure intended to (auto)educate the translators?
I do not know if and how the information about our choices on budget visibility is available to the clients, and I wonder if such information is presented in any way that could have some kind of impact on their choice of a translator.
Also, I just like to be in total control of my profile, and I believe that every detail counts.
Best,
Luca
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Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Average quotes per job/per language | May 3, 2010 |
Jared wrote:
Some insight on average quotes per job
Thank you again for your input.
Would it be possible to make these information available to us on regular basis?
Best regards,
Luca
| | | | | The min. wage is not a benchmark, it is only a legal reason for removal | May 3, 2010 |
This is what I read in Jared's announcement (bold emphasis is mine):
A new policy has been added on the legality of some job posts: There is a job posting in which the outsourcer's budget is below the legal minimums in certain countries. Can it be removed?
If the violation is direct (ex. 2 units per hour where the minimum wage is 4 units per hour), please enter a support request so that staff members can consider removal. (A job posting can not be removed on the basis of assumptions as to work rate, however.) If you suspect a violation of this policy, please report it via the online support system (links are provided at the bottom of each job posting to facilitate this).
An article has been started in the ProZ.com Wiki, Minimum wage by country, which references existing documentation on minimum wage allowed by law in different countries. Translators are encouraged to reference this information and add to it where needed.
This policy is not addressing what is a FAIR rate in any way. It simply defines a reason (so far the only reason) why a job posting could be removed from the site. The removal is clearly identified being based on the legality of the job post.
It is not a benchmark in any way, it does not mean that if a job offers more than the minimum wage than it should be considered a fair rate, by any means. The last paragraph about the Wiki means translators should reference and update this minimum wage list so they could report violations, not that they should consider working for such rates. (Perhaps this should be clarified in the text of the FAQ.)
The way I see it, with this policy, ProZ wants to cover its bases in terms of the legal aspects, which is a perfectly understandable move. As far as I understand, the article in the Italian press that initiated this whole movement with the petition etc. and all these changes, highlighted (among others) the legal problems of ProZ publishing a job post with rates below the Italian minimum wage requirements.
So again, nobody said the min. wage (regardless of country or calculation method) would or should be any sort of "benchmark" when we set our own rates.
Jared, if I misunderstood something, please correct.
Katalin
[Edited at 2010-05-03 11:11 GMT]
| | | | | Thank you Jared. | May 3, 2010 |
Thanks for what Proz.com has done so far.
MisterBeppe
| | | | | Conditions for showing outsourcer indication of preference not to see budget information | May 3, 2010 |
Hello Luca,
Luca Tutino wrote:
I do not know if and how the information about our choices on budget visibility is available to the clients, and I wonder if such information is presented in any way that could have some kind of impact on their choice of a translator.
Also, I just like to be in total control of my profile, and I believe that every detail counts.
Best,
Luca
This information on budget information preference is shown in one place, in the received quote list. If a translator quotes on a job that has budget information in it, and has selected not to see budget information, the outsourcer will see a note in the quote reflecting this. For example:
If it happens that a job is posted where all translators who meet the criteria for the job have chosen not to view budget information, the poster will be notified of this fact, and in this case the field to enter budget info itself will not be available.
Best regards,
Jared
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| Thanks Katalin! | May 3, 2010 |
Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:
So again, nobody said the min. wage (regardless of country or calculation method) would or should be any sort of "benchmark" when we set our own rates.
This is 100% correct, thanks Katalin!
Jared
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 15:17
English to Polish
+ ...
| minimum wage? | May 3, 2010 |
I thought minimum wages applied to employees. And that most people out here would be mightily offended when called "employees"
[Edited at 2010-05-03 21:13 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Update on changes made to the ProZ.com job posting system, 29 April, 2010 | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
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