| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Macedonian vs Macedonian conceptual conflict Thread poster: Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ
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| What do you actually suggest Maria? | Sep 10, 2007 |
What's your proposal?
Thank you,
Sherefedin
| | | | | Said, thanks for the link | Sep 10, 2007 |
Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote: Actually, the name of the country according to ISO is not FYROM, but The Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia. Check it out: http://www.iso.org/iso/about/iso_members.htm Sometimes to gain some space it is written FYROM. So I don't see a problem here why Proz couldn't write one of the abbreviated names and keep the rest abbreviated.
Following the hyperlink for the abbreviation, there are a couple of other versions of the name on the page
http://www.iso.org/iso/about/iso_members/iso_member_body.htm?member_id=2154
- FYR of Macedonia
- Republic of Macedonia (only in titles of Macedonian institutions, but used without any qualifier and without any negative comment).
- Macedonian (used on its own as an adjective, without any qualifier).
As you so rightly observe, the acronym "FYROM" is nowhere to be found. And the acronym without the name "Macedonia" would be meaningless to many people using the site. I repeat: I had never come across the acronym before I read this thread and would not have understood it, but the full form "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" would have been perfectly comprehensible.
I gather that people from nearby countries (e.g. Greece, Serbia) are more familiar with the acronym and surprised that it is not more familiar in countries that are thousands of miles away.
And as to the question recently about whether I ever follow international sports, I checked a couple of serious newspapers for the group football (soccer) results in the European Cup qualifiers, and they simply used "Mazedonien" (in German) and "Macedonia" (in English). The acronym FYROM is simply not present in the media that I have come across - and in German there would be a different acronym anyway.
One thing I am unsure of - this discussion is about how to treat the name of the country. But I thought the issue that started this thread was the question of how to treat the name of the LANGUAGE. Does the ISO give any guidance on that?
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:25]
| | | | | Then we should apply the same rules for all country names | Sep 10, 2007 |
Henry D wrote: Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote: Actually, the name of the country according to ISO is not FYROM, but The Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia. Check it out: http://www.iso.org/iso/about/iso_members.htm Sometimes to gain some space it is written FYROM. So I don't see a problem here why Proz couldn't write one of the abbreviated names and keep the rest abbreviated. Thanks, Said. If I am not mistaken, the current version of the codes is accessible via this page: http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166_code_lists.htm The HTML and TXT versions, at least, show: "MACEDONIA, THE FORMER YUGOSLAV REPUBLIC OF"
Hi, Henry.
The HTML page you mentioned (http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166_code_lists/english_country_names_and_code_elements.htm) lists KOREA, DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF (KP) and KOREA, REPUBLIC OF (KR) but what we can see in members' profiles and the BB country list is: North Korea and South Korea.
Shouldn't we apply the same rules to all country names?
The already existing abbreviation for "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" is F.Y.R.O.M. I really can't see what the problem is when we use it here.
Regards.
Vicky
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:26]
| | | | Elena Petelos 
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:27
English to Greek
+ ...
| America, United States of.... | Sep 10, 2007 |
Interesting, I would have thought the NISO, the BBC (May 2007) and the OECD had it right... not to mention... Eurovision!
The country's name remains a contentious issue. It is still referred to formally as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM).
<... See more
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| the name.... | Sep 10, 2007 |
Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:
Isn't it exaggerating to impose either an abbreviation or the whole name, knowing that both exist and that abbreviating the rest of the name is only to gain space? Why is thi sseen as creating new rules?
I think that this is pointless, FYROM is the offical acronym of Republic of Macedonia until the problem is solved....
It should stay Macedonia and, there might be (FYROM) added.
Regards,
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev
| | | | | I read your posts Maria | Sep 10, 2007 |
[quote]Maria Karra wrote:
Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:
Isn't it exaggerating to impose either an abbreviation or the whole name, knowing that both exist and that abbreviating the rest of the name is only to gain space? Why is thi sseen as creating new rules?
As you said, Said, they both exist: the name and the acronym. Please answer this: is the existing acronym not FYROM?
If yes, and if we are NOT going to use the entire name but an acronym, shouldn't this be the acronym used?
If not, what is the existing acronym?
Maria
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Victor Dewsbery wrote:
But I thought the issue that started this thread was the question of how to treat the name of the LANGUAGE. Does the ISO give any guidance on that?
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:25]
You are right Victor. This all started with the name of the new forum and you see where we ended...
Nevertheless, if the rules of proz.com are based on ISO standards the same standards should be applied all over the site.
Sherefedin
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I'm sorry Maria, but when I read your posts I see more anger than anything else.
In your posts you also said that anything else than FYROM is inaccurate. This is not true, since the name is The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which makes it as accurate as FYROM.
International bodies use sometimes simply Macedonia and in brackets or after a coma give more precisions adding Former Yugoslav Republic Of or (FYROM) or even simply 'FYR'.
We both know that the n... See more I'm sorry Maria, but when I read your posts I see more anger than anything else.
In your posts you also said that anything else than FYROM is inaccurate. This is not true, since the name is The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which makes it as accurate as FYROM.
International bodies use sometimes simply Macedonia and in brackets or after a coma give more precisions adding Former Yugoslav Republic Of or (FYROM) or even simply 'FYR'.
We both know that the name doesn't end with a preposition, but that is simply informative and also an exception. ▲ Collapse
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Elena Petelos
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:27
English to Greek
+ ...
| You said it! | Sep 10, 2007 |
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev wrote:
I think that this is pointless, FYROM is the offical acronym of Republic of Macedonia until the problem is solved....
Exactly.
It should stay Macedonia and, there might be (FYROM) added.
And it should stay Macedonia because the official acronym is "FYROM"?
The rest of the world can go ahead and use the official name, but here in Proz.com we might as well leave it as it is. I do have a problem following your reasoning.
I do understand this is a very important issue for people from FYROM. However, I fail to understand why nobody seems to be taking into consideration it is an equally important matter for Greek people -especially those who come from Macedonia -like Maria and Vicky.
Kind regards
El.
edit
We both know that the name doesn't end with a preposition, but that is simply informative and also an exception.
Equally informative -as you probably know as a linguist- would have been to add "Slavic". Or more accurately "Northern Macedonian Slavic" or "South Slavic" -despite the fact the (former recognized dialect's) name would not have served any political purposes. But you did not want to do that. You do understand, I hope, that you might all be getting carried away, as if the name of the country changes to something like "Northern Macedonia" -probably more accurate and easily understood than anything else (and despite the Greek state would probably not react so well to this as well)- you are compromising future entries, as a change in the official country name is more than likely to follow.
Kind regards
El.
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:41]
| | | | | | | F.Y.R.O.M.......! | Sep 10, 2007 |
Do you realize that an average outsourcer outside the Balkans doesn't even know what this artificial accronym means?
They will have to google first before they understand which country is concerned.
For that reason F.Y.R.O.M. only is not suitable.
Macedonia (FYRO) or Macedonia (FYROM) seems better to me.
Sherefedin
| | | | | whatI wrote.... | Sep 10, 2007 |
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev wrote:
I think that this is pointless, FYROM is the offical acronym of Republic of Macedonia until the problem is solved....
What I wrote is this....
And that is why I agree with Macedonia (FYROM)
Regards,
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev
[Уредено на 2007-09-10 21:42]
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Victor Dewsbery wrote:
And the acronym without the name "Macedonia" would be meaningless to many people using the site. I repeat: I had never come across the acronym before I read this thread and would not have understood it, but the full form "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" would have been perfectly comprehensible.
And as to the question recently about whether I ever follow international sports, I checked a couple of serious newspapers for the group football (soccer) results in the European Cup qualifiers, and they simply used "Mazedonien" (in German) and "Macedonia" (in English). The acronym FYROM is simply not present in the media that I have come across - and in German there would be a different acronym anyway.
One thing I am unsure of - this discussion is about how to treat the name of the country. But I thought the issue that started this thread was the question of how to treat the name of the LANGUAGE. Does the ISO give any guidance on that?
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:25]
I fully agree with you!
Thanks,
Gabriela
| | | | | Macedonia (FYROM) | Sep 10, 2007 |
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev wrote:
And that is why I agree with (FYROM)
Macedonia (FYROM) you mean, I guess and agree with.
Sherefedin
| | | | | Totally agree | Sep 10, 2007 |
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Do you realize that an average outsourcer outside the Balkans doesn't even know what this artificial accronym means?
They will have to google first before they understand which country is concerned.
For that reason F.Y.R.O.M. only is not suitable.
Macedonia (FYRO) or Macedonia (FYROM) seems better to me.
Sherefedin
Totally agree.
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