Jul 15, 2011 12:47
12 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term
Si el pícaro supiera las ventajas de ser honesto, sería honesto de puro pícaro
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Old Spanish proverb
I have found various versions of this phrase. Others include...
si el pícaro supiera las ventajas que trae consigo ser hombre de bien, sería hombre de bien por picardía
Si el pícaro supiera las ventajas de ser honrado sería honrado de puro pícaro que es
Si el pícaro sufriera de las ventajas que tiene ser honrado, sería honrado por picardía.
Si el pícaro conociera las ventajas de ser honrado, lo fuera por pícaro por ende soy un "pícaro" honesto.
One reference I found attributed it to Benjamin Franklin, another to Emerson, but most just call it an old Spanish proverb. I'm struggling particularly with how to translate pícaro. The best I've come up with is...
If the rogue were truly a rogue, his very rogueishness would cause him to be honest.
si el pícaro supiera las ventajas que trae consigo ser hombre de bien, sería hombre de bien por picardía
Si el pícaro supiera las ventajas de ser honrado sería honrado de puro pícaro que es
Si el pícaro sufriera de las ventajas que tiene ser honrado, sería honrado por picardía.
Si el pícaro conociera las ventajas de ser honrado, lo fuera por pícaro por ende soy un "pícaro" honesto.
One reference I found attributed it to Benjamin Franklin, another to Emerson, but most just call it an old Spanish proverb. I'm struggling particularly with how to translate pícaro. The best I've come up with is...
If the rogue were truly a rogue, his very rogueishness would cause him to be honest.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+7
29 mins
Selected
If the knave knew the benefits of honesty he would be honest out of pure knavery
Just a suggestion.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Teressa Weaver
: I like the word "knave." It has a touch of history to it. Rogue is my 2nd choice for pícaro.
32 mins
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Thanks Teressa.
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| agree |
Bubo Coroman (X)
: I have to confess to a weakness for knaves too
52 mins
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Thanks Deborah. Knaves and la picaresca to me conjure up similar images.
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| agree |
Thayenga
1 hr
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Thanks Thayenga.
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| agree |
Elizabeth Joy Pitt de Morales
: A lovely turn of phrase!
1 hr
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Thanks Elizabeth.
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| agree |
Charles Davis
: Yes, "knave" has a nice period feel, but this gets my vote for the structure of the phrase; it is a very good idea to emulate the chiasma of the original // Sorry, stupid of me; I meant chiasmus, not chiasma!
2 hrs
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Thanks Charles. I must remember to look up chiasma.....
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| agree |
Rosa Paredes
: "knave"....
5 hrs
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Thanks Rosa.
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| agree |
James A. Walsh
8 hrs
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Thanks James.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
7 mins
Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
US Court Cert. 1980 Ph.D. 1981
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
58
If the scoundrel knew the advantages of being honest, a true scoundrel would be honest
one option
Mike
Mike
+2
18 mins
If the rascal were aware of the advantages of honesty, the rascal in him would make him honest. OR
If the rascal was aware of the advantages of being honest, the very rascal in him would drive him to honesty.
Another take on it.
I chose rascal to provide other alternatives (scally, scalawag, scallywag might others), but personally I prefer scoundrel.
:O)
Another take on it.
I chose rascal to provide other alternatives (scally, scalawag, scallywag might others), but personally I prefer scoundrel.
:O)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
DLyons
: Really well done!!! You've pretty much recreated the original. // Mine is just a quote I found on Google. But you've done original work!
15 mins
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Thanks DL. I also like the alternative approaches you and Simon have taken. :O) // Well, not really. I largely based mine on Josephine's own suggestion. I don't think I'd have got quite as far all on my own! :O)
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| agree |
Mónica Algazi
: Wow!
1 hr
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| agree |
Salloz
1 hr
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:O)
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+3
23 mins
Simon Bruni
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Related KudoZ points
:
52
A truly cunning rogue is cunning enough to be honest
or
A rogue who knows the advantages to being honest is cunning enough to be honest
or
A truly cunning rogue knows the advantages to being honest
A rogue who knows the advantages to being honest is cunning enough to be honest
or
A truly cunning rogue knows the advantages to being honest
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Mónica Algazi
: The shorter, the more powerful. I like this one, too!
1 hr
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Thanks, Monica :)
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| agree |
Thayenga
: Short and straight to the point. :)
1 hr
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Thanks, Thayenga :)
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| agree |
Rosa Paredes
5 hrs
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31 mins
If rascals knew the advantages of virtue they would become honest men out of rascality.
Benjamin Franklin.
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Note added at 32 mins (2011-07-15 13:19:20 GMT)
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Or maybe Mark Twain!
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 13:54:25 GMT)
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Seems to be a Benjamin Franklin quote OK. It's citedin the following peer-reviewed article:
"Body, Mind, and Soul", Paul Dudley White, Journal of Religion and Health.
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Note added at 32 mins (2011-07-15 13:19:20 GMT)
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Or maybe Mark Twain!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 13:54:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Seems to be a Benjamin Franklin quote OK. It's citedin the following peer-reviewed article:
"Body, Mind, and Soul", Paul Dudley White, Journal of Religion and Health.
1 hr
Pablo Julián Davis
Native in Spanish
&
English
La palabra justa/The right word
Native in: Spanish 
, English
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, Portuguese to Spanish, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
If hustlers saw an angle in honesty, they'd turn honest.
US street slang version, c. mid-20th century.
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 14:27:08 GMT)
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Since we don't know if the translation is meant as an Engl. rendering of an 'old Spanish proverb' and therefore a bit antiquated/literary, or as a more contemporary take on this old idea, it's hard to nail the register. I went for a more contemporary, gangster/film noir sound. Trying too for brevity (something Simon manages well).
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 14:32:51 GMT)
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What saves me from having to add something at the end like 'as a hustle' is that the word 'angle' folds in two meanings: there's an advantage, and a connotation of the illicit.
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 14:27:08 GMT)
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Since we don't know if the translation is meant as an Engl. rendering of an 'old Spanish proverb' and therefore a bit antiquated/literary, or as a more contemporary take on this old idea, it's hard to nail the register. I went for a more contemporary, gangster/film noir sound. Trying too for brevity (something Simon manages well).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 14:32:51 GMT)
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What saves me from having to add something at the end like 'as a hustle' is that the word 'angle' folds in two meanings: there's an advantage, and a connotation of the illicit.
2 hrs
If the devil knew the benefits of honesty, he would be honest out of sheer deviltry
Another angle. There's a tradition of referring to people as devils in an archetypal sense (He's a real devil, the devil made me do it, he's up to deviltry . . .) that makes me think that devil might work here. It makes me think of folkloric metaphors that are still popular in songs like the Charlie Daniel's Band's "The Devil Went Down to Georgia".
Discussion
"If the rogue knew the advantages of being honest, be honest pure rogue."
If the rascal/scoundrel were truly a rogue, his very rogueishness would cause him to be honest