Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

when he attended the St. Louis Park Hebrew school and middle school

English answer:

he attended these schools between the ages of four and nine

Added to glossary by Charles Davis
Jun 22, 2019 14:52
4 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

when he attended the St. Louis Park Hebrew school and middle school

English Other Education / Pedagogy general conversation
Hello everyone,

From the book Thank You for Being Late by Thomas Friedman.

Sandel’s thoughts were echoed by another St. Louis Park alum, Norman Ornstein—the political scientist, resident scholar at the Ameri-can Enterprise Institute (a Washington, D.C., think tank) and one of the most oft-quoted analysts on American politics and Congress. His books include It’s Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism, The Permanent Campaign and Its Future, and Intensive Care: How Congress Shapes Health Policy, all co-written with Thomas E. Mann. Norm is five years older than me, and was actually born in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, where his dad moved from Canada to open a men’s clothing store. His mom, though, was from North Minneapolis, and the family moved to the city when Norm was four and stayed until he was nine, ***when he attended the St. Louis Park Hebrew school and middle school***. Then the family moved to Canada for a few years, and then moved back to St. Louis Park. He graduated from high school at age fourteen and entered the University of Minnesota as a sophomore at age fifteen.

Taken separately, the phrase in question is clear. But I can understand some things about it in the context.

So when Norm was four, his family moved to Minneapolis (I take "the family moved to the city" to mean that they moved to Minneapolis). They stayed there until he was nine. But when did he begin to attend those schools (St. Louis Park Hebrew school and middle school)? When he was nine? Or did he attend them when he was something in between four and nine?
And does the phrase in question imply that they moved from Mnneapolis to St. Louis Park?

Unfortunately, his bio available on the net doesn't mention US schools at all.

http://slphistory.org/ornsteinnorm/
NORM ORNSTEIN
Norman Jay Ornstein was born on October 14, 1948, in Grand Rapids, Minnesota. He finished high school at age 14 in Winnipeg – his father was originally from Canada. His parents, Joseph and Dorothy Ornstein, lived in St. Louis Park:

Thank you.
Change log

Jun 23, 2019 02:32: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "general conversation"

Jun 23, 2019 18:09: Charles Davis Created KOG entry

Discussion

Robert Forstag Jun 22, 2019:
Poorly written, but... the *intended meaning*, and what can be logically inferred as the facts of the matter, do seem to he clear, and would appear to be along the lines that Charles has indicated.
Charles Davis Jun 22, 2019:
Actually "they stayed there until he was nine" is unambiguous: from when he was nine they no longer lived in Minneapolis, so he couldn't have been attending this school after that.

I wouldn't be surprised if he started at the Hebrew School before the age of 7.
Charles Davis Jun 22, 2019:
@Tony No more room to elaborate in the comment box. I suggested that this means that between the ages of 4 and 9, while his family lived in St Louis Park in Minneapolis, he attended the elementary (primary) section of this school, which was both an elementary and a middle school. But since Ornstein was such a prodigy — as I say, he graduated hgh school at 14, still in Canada — maybe he had already started middle school by the age of 9. It seems that gifted children could be ahead of their normal age bracket. At any rate, although the date when he moved to Canada with his family is not specified online (as far as I can tell), I think it must have been when he was 9, and that he was there for five years. The online sources do say that he spent "much of his childhood" in Canada, and up to the age of 9 he was definitely in Minnesota (Grand Rapids then Minneapolis).

Responses

+3
38 mins
Selected

he attended these schools between the ages of four and nine

This school, the Torah Talmud school of Minnesota located in St Louis Part, covered and still covers grades 2-8, i.e., ages 7-14. So it was/is a primary (elementary) school and a middle school (these are successive stages).
https://www.talmudtorahmpls.org/

History here:
https://www.talmudtorahmpls.org/history-learn-more

"Kenesseth Israel was called the "mother of institutions" for its role in creating other congregations and Jewish organizations. The first was a Hebrew school for youth, founded in 1894. This school was the forerunner of the Talmud Torah of Minneapolis, a primary school for Torah study."
http://www.mnopedia.org/group/kenesseth-israel-congregation-...

See here in the book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MFptDQAAQBAJ&pg=PT489&lp...

He was born in Grand Rapids, MN. When he was four, his parents moved to Minneapolis, MN. When he was nine, they moved to Canada, and when he was 14 they moved back to Minneapolis.

So it doesn't mean he started at Talmud Torah when he was nine. He left it when he was nine and they moved to Canada.

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Note added at 1 hr (2019-06-22 15:53:59 GMT)
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The family's residence in Canada was not brief, apparently:

"Norman Jay Ornstein was born in Grand Rapids, Minnesota on October 14, 1948. His father was a traveling salesman, and the family spent much of Norman's childhood in Canada."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Ornstein

Peer comment(s):

agree Robert Forstag
47 mins
Thanks, Robert!
agree Sheri P : My interpretation, too. And I was born and raised in Minneapolis :-)
1 hr
Thanks very much, Sheri! The Coen brothers went to this very school, apparently. There must be something in the water :-)
agree Tony M : Point(s) taken!
1 hr
Many thanks, Tony :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much, Charles."

Reference comments

9 mins
Reference:

Also posted here

http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/when-he-attended-the-...
Please tell us if you do this, Mikhail.
Note from asker:
Well, the link doesn't open for me (Oops! We ran into some problems.), but yes, I asked the same question on Wordreference. The only person who answered wasn't sure (and there are many native speakers there) so I decided to ask here as well. Hope there is nothing wrong with it...
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral Oliver Simões : Broken link
2 mins
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