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vessie de répletion médiocre
Mutelle SC (abbreviation)
Dec 15, 2021 17:05
2 yrs ago
41 viewers *
French term

le Porro

French to English Art/Literary History Academic article on Byzantium
Is this Poros in Greece?

'De même, leur colonies tyrrhéniennes sont choisies par les Sarrasins pour d'évidentes raisons stratégiques; mais si le Porro est un véritable gernier, seule la vallée du Crati peut ravitailler Amantea.'
Proposed translations (English)
2 Il Porro
4 +1 Il Porro

Discussion

Conor McAuley Dec 18, 2021:
I've got a hunch that "gernier" is a typo/bad OCR for "grenier" and that, in the same vein, "Porro" is also that, in this vast territory:

https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine empire map&rlz=1C1...

So, based on that, ask the client for the source text (PDF/other?).
philgoddard Dec 16, 2021:
Well done, Cyril and Cadastre I agree it's a typo - there's no reason for the French to insert an extra "r".
Verity Roat (asker) Dec 16, 2021:
Thank you that's really helpful everyone!
Bourth Dec 16, 2021:
More revealing place names Byzance ne possède plus que quelques enclaves, autour des ports fortifiés : le promontoire du Porro [sic!] qui appartient, avec Tropea, Nicotera, et Vibona au patrimoine pontifical ...
https://www.persee.fr/doc/crai_0065-0536_1997_num_141_4_1580... (with maps)

Nicotera in the south, Tropea in the west, and Vibona in the north form a triangle encompassing the Poro promontory.
Cyril Tollari Dec 15, 2021:
Definitely a typo Same writer (Ghislaine Noyé), but it's "le Poro" in this text, not "le Porro"
https://journals.openedition.org/crm/13754?lang=en
Deux autres massae pontificales couvraient le fertile massif du Poro et les collines de Nicotera, ainsi que la plaine adjacente, zones qui étaient désormais dédiées à la production de blé et de vin
Bourth Dec 15, 2021:
Monte Poro promontory It does indeed look as if it is not so much a typo as the French name for the Monte Poro promontory.

https://www.persee.fr/doc/jds_0021-8103_2000_num_2_1_1637
refers to 'Le Porro' as a granary.
It refers also to "les franges littorales du Porro, surtout aux environs de Briatico",
then to "Porto Salvo dans le Porro".

Both Briatico and Porto Salvo are towns on the northern coast of the Monte Poro promontory.
Cyril Tollari Dec 15, 2021:
I agree with Phil. There could be a typo.

Sounds like a whole region. I would look into Il Poro, a plateau in Calabria. Here's a link that talks about it with pictures showing fields. It was colonised by the Greek.
http://www.poro.it/monteporo/archeologia.htm

And I think it's in Calabria.
http://www.rmoa.unina.it/981/1/RM-Noyé-Byzance.pdf
philgoddard Dec 15, 2021:
OK But I'm not convinced by "Il Porro".
Emmanuella Dec 15, 2021:
@ Philgoddard - sorry, it can't be as explained by Steve Robbie ...
Steve Robbie Dec 15, 2021:
Interesting thought but unlikely. Le Pô has a circumflex as well as no "rro"; the Po valley is hundreds of miles away; and the Arabs didn't get much further north than Calabria. The time period for Arab incursions into Italy is around 700-1000CE.
philgoddard Dec 15, 2021:
I wonder if it could be a typo for the Po river. That was part of Tyrrhenia, the land of the Etruscans. The definite article in the French suggests it's a geographical feature.
Emmanuella Dec 15, 2021:
https://www.portaleabruzzo.com/404.php#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Il po...
Bourth Dec 15, 2021:
In Calabria There's an Amantea in your Calabria region, and the Crati river, the longest in Calabria, has its headwaters near Cosenza, so it would make sense that this 'Porro' would be in Calabria too. There's even Piane Crati, also near the headwaters.

"Piane Crati is a town and comune in the province of Cosenza in the Calabria region of southern Italy. [ ...] it is the smallest town in Calabria"
"Amantea (Calabrian: A' Mantia; Greek: Amanthea) is a town, former bishopric, comune (municipality) and Latin Catholic titular see in the province of Cosenza in the Calabria region of southern Italy."
philgoddard Dec 15, 2021:
I'd expect it to be a place in modern-day Italy given the rest of the paragraph - I'm sure Poros has never been a "grenier".
I found the book from which your text comes, but there's only one mention of Porro.

And there's this, but no mention of its being a Saracen colony:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovello_Porro

Proposed translations

35 mins
Selected

Il Porro

POssibly this place (87011 Il Porro), which is near the other two places you mentioned.

https://www.viamichelin.com/web/Maps?address=87011 Il Porro,...
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I'm not sure about this. It's a tiny hamlet, and I can't find any evidence of its having had any historical or archeological importance.
51 mins
Doesn't rule it out, but Verity should probably ask the author.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
36 mins
French term (edited): le Porro

Il Porro

Thanks to Covid, Il Porro gets a mention!

"The village of Il Porro belongs to the municipality of Cassano all'Ionio, in the province of Cosenza, region Calabria.
>>>COVID-19

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2021-12-15 17:44:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

IL PORRO è una località del Comune di CASSANO ALLO IONIO (CS)
La Località dista, in linea d'aria, 9.94 Km dal Comune di Cassano allo Ionio e 50.41 Km dalla Provincia di Cosenza.
Dista 51.06 Km dal Capoluogo di regione (Catanzaro).
https://www.portaleabruzzo.com/calabria/cs/370-il-porro/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2021-12-15 17:48:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops, I miscopied my first ref. :
"The village of Il Porro belongs to the municipality of Cassano all'Ionio, in the province of Cosenza, region Calabria.
>>>COVID-19

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 43 mins (2021-12-15 17:49:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ah, those chevrons are wreaking havoc...
"For the province of Cosenza, to whom Il Porro belongs, on 2021-12-14 are reported 30,898 cases. In the previos day there were 30,847 cases, thus having a variation of 51 cases, i.e. 0.17% with reference to the number of cases reported in the previous day."
http://italia.indettaglio.it/eng/calabria/cosenza_cassanoall...


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Note added at 5 hrs (2021-12-15 22:14:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

STOP PRINT

I take back all the above since further research, particularly other place names (see one of my comments in Discussion) suggests that this "Le Porro" is in fact the Monte Poro promontory.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2021-12-15 22:26:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There are a couple of instances of 'Poro high plain' which might be a suitable equivalent to "Le Porro".

On the Poro high plain several settlements are attested on flat and open locations, on the very fertile andosols that are of volcanic origin and highly suited for agricultural activities. On the edge of the high plain there were hilltop sites, which probably assumed strategic functions of defence and control.
https://docplayer.net/217095535-The-settlement-of-punta-di-z...

"The settlements on the Poro high plain, the inhabitants of which were mostly specialized in farming on the exceptionally fertile soils in that area, were integrated into a system with defensible settlements spread across the lower hill zone, which was mainly exploited by herding,"
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/42093-Punta-di-Zambron...
Peer comment(s):
agree Anastasia Kalantzi
1 day 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
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