Sep 28, 2022 08:28
1 yr ago
29 viewers *
French term
lot façades
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Construction / Civil Engineering
Assignation. A demolition-rebuilding project which went horribly wrong, allegedly due to the architect's failure to supervise the contractors. But also its failure to carry out soundings as recommended by the ground surveyor.
"OBJET DE LA DEMANDE
Madame AAA, nue-propriétaire d'une maison située à BBB ..., a entrepris des travaux de démolition et de rénovation complète de cette maison.
Afin de mener à bien ce projet, Madame AAA a fait appel à la société CCC à laquelle elle a confié la maîtrise d'œuvre.
Les marchés ont été passés par corps d'états séparés :
Le lot de maçonnerie a été confié à Monsieur DDD
Le lot menuiserie-serrurerie a été confié à EEE
Le lot électricité-plomberie a été confié à FFF
Le lot étanchéité a été confié à GGG
Le lot façades a été confié à HHH"
...
"Par courrier en date du 1er octobre 2019, Monsieur III, façadier, alertait directement Madame AAA sur les difficultés qu'il rencontrait en dépit de ses multiples relances auprès de la société CCC.
Il écrivait ainsi :
« Je vous informe que les menuiseries de votre maison à BBB n'ont pas été fixées correctement ou il manque des pattes de fixations supplémentaires.
..."
NB "Monsieur III" doesn't appear to be connected to HHH. He was involved a later stage. The reason for this second excerpt is that façadier is "renderer" rather than "facade-builder". Also this is a detached house, not an immeuble en copropriété. So it seems likely to me that lot façades could well translate as something other than "facades work package".
"OBJET DE LA DEMANDE
Madame AAA, nue-propriétaire d'une maison située à BBB ..., a entrepris des travaux de démolition et de rénovation complète de cette maison.
Afin de mener à bien ce projet, Madame AAA a fait appel à la société CCC à laquelle elle a confié la maîtrise d'œuvre.
Les marchés ont été passés par corps d'états séparés :
Le lot de maçonnerie a été confié à Monsieur DDD
Le lot menuiserie-serrurerie a été confié à EEE
Le lot électricité-plomberie a été confié à FFF
Le lot étanchéité a été confié à GGG
Le lot façades a été confié à HHH"
...
"Par courrier en date du 1er octobre 2019, Monsieur III, façadier, alertait directement Madame AAA sur les difficultés qu'il rencontrait en dépit de ses multiples relances auprès de la société CCC.
Il écrivait ainsi :
« Je vous informe que les menuiseries de votre maison à BBB n'ont pas été fixées correctement ou il manque des pattes de fixations supplémentaires.
..."
NB "Monsieur III" doesn't appear to be connected to HHH. He was involved a later stage. The reason for this second excerpt is that façadier is "renderer" rather than "facade-builder". Also this is a detached house, not an immeuble en copropriété. So it seems likely to me that lot façades could well translate as something other than "facades work package".
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | exterior walls/facade finishing work package |
FPC
|
| 5 +1 | lot façades |
Johannes Gleim
|
| 3 +1 | cladding package |
Bourth
|
Proposed translations
+2
5 hrs
FPC
Works in field
Selected
exterior walls/facade finishing work package
I don't see anything wrong with "facade", even though I get your point of course. I don't know your background but in most projects it's just a signpost or quick reference: what's important and binding is the wp description. Anyway, strictly speaking I understand what's bothering you here, but as there's nothing in the excerpt points to what type of work is to be done (cladding, rendering/plastering, siding, brick (veneer).... ) you can't have a specific term put there either (you'd be in the same position. To me it's clear that "façade" refers to facade finishing work, but if you feel the need to specify it then do so, as per my proposal. Since "façades" is on the plural I guess it refers to all exterior walls so I'd go for exterior (walls) , as façade in the sense of housefront is just one. I hope this helps.
https://facadefinishes.co.uk/
https://www.homewyse.com/definitions/exterior_finish.html
https://www.exteriorfinishing.ca/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2022-09-28 14:40:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I just wany to add a note based on another suggestion. In a contractual environment "lot" is a legitimate term. The Asker opted for work package which is fine and typically a term used in project management. Lot is also fine when referring to a subcontracted part of major contract or simply a division of the project deliverable/s. This is my experience
but see also the ref. https://www.felp.ac.uk/content/division-contract-lots
https://facadefinishes.co.uk/
https://www.homewyse.com/definitions/exterior_finish.html
https://www.exteriorfinishing.ca/
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2022-09-28 14:40:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I just wany to add a note based on another suggestion. In a contractual environment "lot" is a legitimate term. The Asker opted for work package which is fine and typically a term used in project management. Lot is also fine when referring to a subcontracted part of major contract or simply a division of the project deliverable/s. This is my experience
but see also the ref. https://www.felp.ac.uk/content/division-contract-lots
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
3 hrs
cladding package
Medium confidence because more info. required (and undoubtedly lacking).
Were this a high-rise project, the term would be 'curtain walling' or 'façade'.
Another problem is the nature of the project. You say "demolition-rebuilding", implyin gthe house was demolished. The French "démolition" CAN mean that, but in (re)construction/rehabilitation/revamping contexts, it often means only PARTIAL demolition, e.g. breaking out of walls (entirely or parially), removal of floors on timber joists and replacement with concrete or steel beams, etc.
Cladding is basically what is seen on the façade (yes) of a building that has structural framing (a house with walls of concrete blocks need not have cladding, a timber framed house will). In this case, and given the age we live in, it might be cladding installed over an existing wall, external insulation panels for instance.
Were this a high-rise project, the term would be 'curtain walling' or 'façade'.
Another problem is the nature of the project. You say "demolition-rebuilding", implyin gthe house was demolished. The French "démolition" CAN mean that, but in (re)construction/rehabilitation/revamping contexts, it often means only PARTIAL demolition, e.g. breaking out of walls (entirely or parially), removal of floors on timber joists and replacement with concrete or steel beams, etc.
Cladding is basically what is seen on the façade (yes) of a building that has structural framing (a house with walls of concrete blocks need not have cladding, a timber framed house will). In this case, and given the age we live in, it might be cladding installed over an existing wall, external insulation panels for instance.
Note from asker:
| Thanks. Interesting. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Rather too specific, really, but probably the best solution, as it covers almost anything at a stretch.
10 mins
|
+1
5 hrs
Johannes Gleim
Works in field
40 years Engineer, 20 years translations
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
189
lot façades
lot nm (ensemble de choses) bundle, batch, lot n
share n
Le brocanteur achète les vieux livres par lots.
The secondhand goods dealer buys old books in batches.
https://www.wordreference.com/fren/Lot
Note: 'bundles' or 'batches' are not used in building construction but in manufacturing.
façade nf (pan de mur, devanture) frontage, facade n Cette façade est végétalisée.
This facade is covered in vegetation.
façade nf figuré (apparence) facade, outward appearance n (informal) front n
https://www.wordreference.com/fren/façade
Une façade (terme du XVIIe siècle venant de l’italien facciata) est la face extérieure d’un bâtiment ou un ensemble de faces que l’on voit globalement de l’extérieur suivant un axe perpendiculaire centré, avec un repère cardinal de position de l'observateur ou un repère de situation dans l'environnement immédiat.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Façade
A façade (/fəˈsɑːd/ (listen))[1] (also written facade) is generally the front part or exterior of a building. It is a loan word from the French façade (pronounced [fasad]), which means 'frontage' or 'face'.
In architecture, the façade of a building is often the most important aspect from a design standpoint, as it sets the tone for the rest of the building. From the engineering perspective, the façade is also of great importance due to its impact on energy efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Façade
"Lot frontage" Approximately 378,000 results (0.38 seconds)
"Lot façade " About 17,900 results (0.35 seconds)
"Lot outward appearance" Approximately 9 results (0.24 seconds)
"lot" "façade" "Construction" Approximately 43,200,000 results (0.55 seconds)
"lot" "facade" "Construction" Approximately 12,900,000 results (0,44 seconds)
"lot" "frontage" "Construction" Approximately 11,900,000 results (0,39 seconds)
Technical Specifications - Facade Lighting – Commercial
https://www.se.com/my/en/download/document/CLPDOC_TS000122/
Specifications in the UK are part of the contract documents that accompany and govern the construction of a building. They are prepared by construction professionals such as architects, architectural technologists, structural engineers, landscape architects and building services engineers. They are created from previous project specifications, in-house documents or master specifications such as the National Building Specification (NBS).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specification_(technical_stand...
Sorry, but 'cladding' is neither frontage nor façade.
If the life span of certain system/equipment is more than 30 years, then the study period is capped at 30 years. For example, a building façade’s life span can more than 30 years. In carrying out the LCC study for building façade access system in the Maintainability Section (NRB), the study period is limited to maximum of 30 years.
18 | Page Version 1.2
CHAPTER 3: TECHNICAL GUIDE
CRITERIA Points
Section 0 – GENERAL
0.1 General Project Requirements
Section 1 – ARCHITECTURAL EXTERIOR
1.1 General Façade Part A
Part A: Subtotal of 1.1
1.2 Cladding system: Tile/Stone/Metal/Others
Part B: Façade System
1.3 Curtain Wall
1.4 Masonry and Lightweight Concrete Panels
Part B: Subtotal of 1.2 to 1.4, including pro-ration)
1.5 Façade Features / other façade considerations 3
1.6 Entrance lobby
1.7 Roof
https://www1.bca.gov.sg/docs/default-source/bca-awards-2020/...
Cladding for the RAD Building, University of Nottingham
Technical Specifications
Facade: 1,265 m² 10.35 t Angled Standing Seam System
RHEINZINK-prePATINA graphite-gre
https://www.buildingdesignindex.co.uk/entry/149434/RHEINZINK...
BEST PRACTICE
To do this, best practice for the building industry professional would include a combination of the following:
• visual inspection of the building for evidence of combustible cladding on the external walls
• a review of documentation relating to the building’s design and specifications, façade engineering specifications and the like, to confirm ‘as-built’ alignment or non-alignment with approval documentation
https://www.hpw.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/4105/...
The successful Façade Engineer will have a strong background in façade design and have a relevant qualification. Façade Engineer Position Overview : Technical and engineering design input projects.
Developing the specifications and other technical data. Leading and managing design projects. Help in the creation of standard details and procedures.
https://uk.talent.com/view?id=206c0622b889
Technical Specifications: Facade: 2,000 m² 14 t Double Standing Seam.
https://www.arch2o.com/town-hall/
Last but not least, I was responsible for the preparation of individual lots of specifications (bills of quantities)
Context translation:
The lot electrical and plumbing was awarded to FFF
The lot waterproofing was awarded to GGG
The lot façade was awarded to HHH".
share n
Le brocanteur achète les vieux livres par lots.
The secondhand goods dealer buys old books in batches.
https://www.wordreference.com/fren/Lot
Note: 'bundles' or 'batches' are not used in building construction but in manufacturing.
façade nf (pan de mur, devanture) frontage, facade n Cette façade est végétalisée.
This facade is covered in vegetation.
façade nf figuré (apparence) facade, outward appearance n (informal) front n
https://www.wordreference.com/fren/façade
Une façade (terme du XVIIe siècle venant de l’italien facciata) est la face extérieure d’un bâtiment ou un ensemble de faces que l’on voit globalement de l’extérieur suivant un axe perpendiculaire centré, avec un repère cardinal de position de l'observateur ou un repère de situation dans l'environnement immédiat.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Façade
A façade (/fəˈsɑːd/ (listen))[1] (also written facade) is generally the front part or exterior of a building. It is a loan word from the French façade (pronounced [fasad]), which means 'frontage' or 'face'.
In architecture, the façade of a building is often the most important aspect from a design standpoint, as it sets the tone for the rest of the building. From the engineering perspective, the façade is also of great importance due to its impact on energy efficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Façade
"Lot frontage" Approximately 378,000 results (0.38 seconds)
"Lot façade " About 17,900 results (0.35 seconds)
"Lot outward appearance" Approximately 9 results (0.24 seconds)
"lot" "façade" "Construction" Approximately 43,200,000 results (0.55 seconds)
"lot" "facade" "Construction" Approximately 12,900,000 results (0,44 seconds)
"lot" "frontage" "Construction" Approximately 11,900,000 results (0,39 seconds)
Technical Specifications - Facade Lighting – Commercial
https://www.se.com/my/en/download/document/CLPDOC_TS000122/
Specifications in the UK are part of the contract documents that accompany and govern the construction of a building. They are prepared by construction professionals such as architects, architectural technologists, structural engineers, landscape architects and building services engineers. They are created from previous project specifications, in-house documents or master specifications such as the National Building Specification (NBS).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specification_(technical_stand...
Sorry, but 'cladding' is neither frontage nor façade.
If the life span of certain system/equipment is more than 30 years, then the study period is capped at 30 years. For example, a building façade’s life span can more than 30 years. In carrying out the LCC study for building façade access system in the Maintainability Section (NRB), the study period is limited to maximum of 30 years.
18 | Page Version 1.2
CHAPTER 3: TECHNICAL GUIDE
CRITERIA Points
Section 0 – GENERAL
0.1 General Project Requirements
Section 1 – ARCHITECTURAL EXTERIOR
1.1 General Façade Part A
Part A: Subtotal of 1.1
1.2 Cladding system: Tile/Stone/Metal/Others
Part B: Façade System
1.3 Curtain Wall
1.4 Masonry and Lightweight Concrete Panels
Part B: Subtotal of 1.2 to 1.4, including pro-ration)
1.5 Façade Features / other façade considerations 3
1.6 Entrance lobby
1.7 Roof
https://www1.bca.gov.sg/docs/default-source/bca-awards-2020/...
Cladding for the RAD Building, University of Nottingham
Technical Specifications
Facade: 1,265 m² 10.35 t Angled Standing Seam System
RHEINZINK-prePATINA graphite-gre
https://www.buildingdesignindex.co.uk/entry/149434/RHEINZINK...
BEST PRACTICE
To do this, best practice for the building industry professional would include a combination of the following:
• visual inspection of the building for evidence of combustible cladding on the external walls
• a review of documentation relating to the building’s design and specifications, façade engineering specifications and the like, to confirm ‘as-built’ alignment or non-alignment with approval documentation
https://www.hpw.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/4105/...
The successful Façade Engineer will have a strong background in façade design and have a relevant qualification. Façade Engineer Position Overview : Technical and engineering design input projects.
Developing the specifications and other technical data. Leading and managing design projects. Help in the creation of standard details and procedures.
https://uk.talent.com/view?id=206c0622b889
Technical Specifications: Facade: 2,000 m² 14 t Double Standing Seam.
https://www.arch2o.com/town-hall/
Last but not least, I was responsible for the preparation of individual lots of specifications (bills of quantities)
Context translation:
The lot electrical and plumbing was awarded to FFF
The lot waterproofing was awarded to GGG
The lot façade was awarded to HHH".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
FPC
: As I said I don't mind facade and neither do lot (a typical contractual term)
20 mins
|
|
Thank you!
|
Discussion
The definition you quote is too narrow, and doesn't allow for the whole range of nuances of meaning required in idiomatic EN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladding_(construction)
Cladding is not a synonym for façade, but can contribute to the enhancement or appearance of the façade.
The context is about the individual trades such as masonry, carpentry, metalwork, electricity, plumbing, sealing and façade finishing.
You will never confuse the electrical installation trade with materials such as cables, meters or switches. Here it is similar: The façade or end wall can be clad with cladding material or receive a new paint coat. This last option is carried out by painters and specified in the specifications under 'paintwork'.
"façade" = work on existing facades (renovation / improvement / maintenance ...)
No special meaning derived from the combination of these two.
I saw you posted about "lot de maçonnerie" too, which makes me think you want to check how best to translate "lot".
I don't take issue with 'work package' or 'item of work' or although Dicobat suggests 'section'.
I've copied and pasted the definition and the suggested translation in this case:
lot - n.m. - Définition 1
Chacune des spécialités qui, sur un chantier, correspondent à un ensemble homogène de travaux et à un marché confié à une entreprise : lot VRD, lot carrelage, etc.
FR lot ENG section (trade or specifications)
Hope that helps!
It'd need a link to the expression "lot façades" to be useful. Construction of the main walls of a house is obviously part of the lot gros oeuvre. So this lot here, by contrast, probably involves rendering the facades rather than building them. Thus "facades work package" wouldn't be right in English.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Façade