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LATFAD
DGAT (PE)
Apr 1 12:47
1 mo ago
41 viewers *
French term

coups de crocs

French to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
Hi everyone,

Thank you for your help with these conundrums - I really appreciate it.

In this passage, I'm understand the coup de crocs as actual physical blows, so not barbs for example. I was thinking of going with 'she remembered the countless nips but.." I know the image of fangs is here, but not sure if that would work. Here's the context:


Elle soupira. Adeline et Tallulah l’avaient rejetée, pas Sylve, ni Charles-Espoir qui la taquinait, qui jouait avec elle lorsqu’ils étaient enfants et la traitait aujourd’hui comme une sœur plutôt que comme une bête de foire. Ivoire se souvenait des innombrables coups de crocs, mais les marques de gentillesse lui avaient laissé des cicatrices indélébiles.

I don't think nips is strong enough though. 'Bites' also doesn't work.

Any suggestions?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 jibes, ragging, ribbing (etc.)
4 sharp blow/s
4 instances of aggression, biting comments and bared teeth
3 sharp jabs

Discussion

philgoddard Apr 1:
I would have thought 'bites', but the asker says it doesn't work - this may be to do with the wider context, which we don't know.
Emmanuella Apr 1:
Phil,
Seriously, what do you suggest ?
Emmanuella Apr 1:
J'ai eu un moment d'hésitation...Félicitations !
philgoddard Apr 1:
That was a joke. April fool!
Emmanuella Apr 1:
J'y ai pensé mais cette image n'est pas parlante dans ce contexte. Les 'crocs' sont plutôt récents. La référence 'animalière' est à privilégier ( bête de foire).
philgoddard Apr 1:
Being kicked by someone in overpriced plastic sandals.
Bourth Apr 1:
Definitely metaphorical fangs.
Emmanuella Apr 1:
Prose imagée au second degré.
'Coups de crocs ' renvoie aux termes ' bête ' ( de foire) ' marques' et 'cicatrices'.
Mpoma Apr 1:
This is quite a strange book ... to be dipping into without having the full picture. I just read the page or so before this. Is Ivoire "deformed" in some way? Her sisters and mother are said to have tried to hide her away. If you told me that in fact this isn't about human beings at all, but that all the characters are badgers (for example), I wouldn't be that surprised.

As for the term, without any other enlightenment, "bite" (although a bit dull) at least has the merit of being quite unpleasant. Why do you say "it doesn't work"?

Proposed translations

+2
10 hrs
Selected

jibes, ragging, ribbing (etc.)


For me it has to be metaphorical. Charles-Espoir was not unkind or violent, he la taquinait - he teased her - he jouait avec elle [probably 'play' in the sense of teasing, not playing games, etc.]

'Tease' could be a good word here because Charles-Espoir avait le don des chevelures
[Teasing, also known as backcombing or ratting, is a combing technique used to create volume at the root of your hair. The technique involves using a fine tooth comb to gently comb the hair downward toward your scalp, causing the hair to slightly tangle and create a voluminous final look.]

That would be surtraduction, but it could be a compensation for not coming up with anything related to crocs. That said, there IS a type of hair clip known in English as a 'croc clip' (croc as in crocodile), and some French sites use the word croc, but probably only as a poor automatic translation of an English site. Besides, like the others of his caste (the third level in the City), Charles-Espoir uses his magical gift, I think, not scissors or curlers or even his hands, to come up with fantastic hair styling.

As we saw with your earlier questions, some if not all of these people seem to be involved in fashion design, clothing, the 'rag trade'. Tallulah-Dulcinée était une artificière des peaux (read 'leather') while Ivoire, elle, faisait danser les rubans.

So maybe instead of 'tease' you could say that Charles-Espoir 'ragged her' [rag - to say things that are funny but a little unkind].

Or, less imaginatively, 'he jibed her' [jibe- to make insulting remarks that are intended to make someone look stupid], he took digs at her, he ribbed her [to rib s.o. - to joke and laugh at someone in a friendly way about something]

Whatever the word, the actions were not brutal but joking, possibly unkind but not physically harmful. Which means that the cicatrices are emotional, psychological, and she learnt ne relâche pas ton attention and n'ouvre pas ton cœur.

As for les marques de gentillesse, I think we have to assume this is something like 'gentle ribbing'.

" … not Sylve, nor Charles-Espoir who teased her, made fun of her when they were children and now treated her like a sister rather than a circus freak. Ivoire remembered
- the countless jibes
- the countless times he ragged her
- all the digs he made
- the countless times he ribbed her (the countless times he digged* her in the ribs?] ...

*I realize many of you will object to the 'archaic' 'digged' rather than 'dug', but I kind of like the older form, here and in another sense too … "Back in the days when I really digged 1970s music, there was this chick I really digged too, man!"
[dig someone in the ribs - to push the side of someone's body quickly with your elbow, often as a way of sharing a private joke with that person or to get their attention - the sort of thing one might do when making a teasing/joking remark about that person]

... but the gentle ribbing had left indelible traces. “Don't drop your guard”, she told herself. “Don’t open up / let anyone into your heart.” "




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Note added at 11 hrs (2024-04-02 00:04:43 GMT)
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Peer comment(s):
agree Anastasia Kalantzi
9 hrs
neutral Mpoma : Hmm. But making things explicit inevitably has the effect of making the imagery less vivid, toning down its deliberate violence. A "coup de crocs" is a bite, at the very least a snap/nip ...
10 hrs
agree Philippa Smith : Totally agree with your anaysis, although I think there's a contrast between the "coups de crocs" which she remembers but were inoffensive, and the "marques de gentillesse" which marked her for life: kindness goes deep, teasing doesn't, sort of thing.
1 day 11 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
8 hrs
French term (edited): coup/s de crocs

sharp blow/s

'she recalled / was mindful of / the countless sharp blows (broadsides if verbal) ' and hopefully less cringeworthy than some of the 'soundbyte' Discussion Entries.

croc, entry 1. hook 2 de loup, chien - fang, Harrap's.

'I'm understand' into native-tongue English = what I understand or I understand.. to mean...
Example sentence:

COUP DE CROCS ET PETIT RAPPEL SUR LA NOTION DE RACE Aux vues de l'attrait de plus en plus croissant pour le lupoide.

Cette amoureuse des animaux a voulu sauver un chien maltraité qu'elle avait trouvé dans un camp de gens du voyage. ... Un coup de crocs plus tard.

Reference:

http://www.topsante.com/medecine/accidents-et-traumatismes/piqures-morsures/attention-un-chien-ca-mord-11701

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sharp-blow

Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : You criticise others' contributions as 'cringeworthy', but your own answer is incomprehensible. Your references are to dog bites, not 'sharp blows'.
46 mins
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22 hrs

sharp jabs

I find the context provided is a bit vague, but to describe the kind of "nips" caused by sharp objects, which may be the case (not sure given lack of context), I think this might be a good alternative because when a jab is described as "sharp", it normally implies a slight cutting in to the skin (or whatever is being targeted).

"JAB
verb....
(1) to poke, or thrust abruptly or sharply, as with the end or point of a stick or with the finger or elbow.
(2) to punch with a short, quick blow.
...
...noun
(5) a poke with the end or point of something; a sharp, quick thrust.
(6) a short, quick punch.
(7) .... "
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/jab
Example sentence:

"...the bleeding is internal and caused by small, SHARP JABS that may cut to the bone, even though they often go unnoticed by parents and teachers."

Reference:

http://www.knittedthoughts.com/2011/02/homeschooling-and-socialization.html

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7 days

instances of aggression, biting comments and bared teeth

Asker: I think it's really necessary to understand what exactly is going on in the story to come up with possible translations for this. I assume you read the entire story before starting to translate it so perhaps you could give a synopsis of what the background is to each question asked as that would really help us help you.

Based on doing a quick reading from the start I understand that:

Ivoire/Juliette was rejected by her mother and ignored by her father as soon as she was born because of her lack of colour, her pale skin and hair. Her mother has always tried to hide her away completely from society. She says her mother has absolutely no time for her, is ashamed of her and does not want her as part of the family so arranges that she work and live elsewhere.

"la famille dans laquelle Ivoire avait eu le malheur de naître"

Her brother Charles is the ONLY one who has any time for her at all and doesn't see her as a circus freak or freak of nature

Dans cette famille, Charles était un seul allié"

As a child her mother got her elder sister ("Tallulah-Dulcinée...une artificière des peaux") to try injecting her with colour (as she would do to animal skins) to make her skin darker but it didn't work. However, it was certainly painful and Ivoire was really happy to get away to her own little house and have a friend Sylvie, now gone.

So it's clear she had a very unhappy, indeed tortured childhood.

She is now remembering all those instances of aggression, viciousness, biting comments, insults, jabs (into her skin) now she is back in this family gathering
Her mother has invited her for nefarious reasons: her younger sister is getting married to royalty and so her family want Tallulah to have another go at trying to darken her skin colour!

Ivoire is horrified at the thought of this torture and refuses and asks her mother, and family, just to forget she exists and to leave her alone. She thanks Charles for his attempt to support her. Her mother and family is scandalised at her "insolence"

She describes herself at this moment, surrounded by these family members as being
vulnérable comme une biche au milieu de la fosse aux lions"

This is, of course, a reference to Aesop's Fable of "The Doe and the Lion" so Ivoire feels her family members are being extremely aggressive or even vicious and are like wild animals snarling and baring their fangs/teeth at her, She feels she has little chance of surviving if she stays there and just wants to get back to being alone in her little house
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bare_one's_teeth
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/bare (one's) teeth

I haven't seen any instances of "blows" so far (haven't finished reading), but it certainly seems like she has lots of memories of aggressive/vicious behaviour and .
biting comments might get the "bite" "fang" idea across



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Note added at 7 days (2024-04-08 14:23:51 GMT)
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sorry, meant to close off the bold earlier

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Note added at 7 days (2024-04-09 09:52:29 GMT)
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Also, in relation to "les marques de gentillesse lui avaient laissé des cicatrices indélébiles".
She becomes emotional when Charles, her brother, is nice to her and tells herself she has to remain strong and not show her vulnerability to the other members of her family. So yes, she has had to toughten up in face of all the aggression shown to her in her life but there is a chink in her armour when someone is kind


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Note added at 7 days (2024-04-09 09:53:28 GMT)
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but the "coups de crocs" is not just teasing or ribbing. Far stronger aggression than that
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