Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

The complainant is the owner-among others-of the following trademarks.

Chinese translation:

别的商标姑且不提,投诉方确为以下商标的拥有者。

Added to glossary by hongsang
Apr 21, 2007 02:39
17 yrs ago
English term

among others

English to Chinese Law/Patents Law (general) trademark
The Complainant is the owner –among others- of the following trademarks.
在这里要怎样理解among others呢? 是不是说投诉方是以下商标的唯一拥有者呢?
请指教。谢谢。

Discussion

hongsang (asker) Apr 23, 2007:
Case closed!Cheers! Finally, I got answer from my client. She explained in French "Cette phrase signifie en général que le Requérant est titulaire de plusieurs marques parmi lesquelles les marques suivantes :
Cette phrase ne signifie certainement pas qu’il existe d’autres personnes titulaires de ces marques".
It means "This sentence means in general that the complainant is the owner of several trademarks among which are the following ones:
This sentence certainly doesn't means that there are other persons who own these trademarks".

So now everything is clear. Wenjer Leuschel's explanation is totally correct. Sage Song's wording is the best. So I combine both to get the final translation as "姑且不提其它的商标,投诉方确为以下商标的拥有者。”

Thanks a lot to everybody. I am so happy that I got so much help here. Case closed! Cheers!
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 23, 2007:
Hongsang, we are of the same view point. The "safest way" to translate this term is the one proposed by Sage Song. A little modification may be needed, but it is the best one, I would say.
hongsang (asker) Apr 23, 2007:
The complainant in this dispute definitely owns other trademarks than the trademarks listed in the document, because after listing several trademarks, it is said that "Copies of said trademarks are attached as annex 4 and a list of the Complainant’s registered trademark is provided as annex 3." That is also why I thought Wenjer Leuschel's opinion was very acceptable. But then after have read Huijun Suo's explanation, I think it is also acceptable.
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 23, 2007:
@wherestip: The case with EXCELENTISIMO AYUNTAMIENTO DE BARCELONA in the link you provided shows the importance of context. I guess Hongsan will make a judgement in accordance to the context. If it is just like that, we can predict the result.
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1881336 In Spanish, "entre otros" would be "among others," supposing that the "otros (others)" are male (e.g., "owners" or "facts"). But the answerer corrects it to female "entre otras," referring to "marcas (trademarks)"!
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
@wherestip: Well, I've also found quite a few similar links. I 'm sure that the others can find 'em, too. In the meantime, the Spanish translators have confirmed my original interpretation as well. I put a wrong adjective on purpose and they corrected it!
wherestip Apr 22, 2007:
typo correction: has a common name
wherestip Apr 22, 2007:
从我找到的链接可以看到, 这类官司主要是罗列一大堆 trademarks that has common name in it and claim ownership 来证明拥有权. 因此例子越是不胜枚举越是好. This is another good example of the importance of context IMO. The people that have the whole context actually have a huge advantage. :-)
wherestip Apr 22, 2007:
Of course, Sage Song's suggestion is similar in meaning to yours. I think the lady in the English-English forum that answered your KudoZ entry there was correct.
wherestip Apr 22, 2007:
Actually among all the suggestions, I think your original suggestion was the closest :-)
wherestip Apr 22, 2007:
However, I looked for similar usages and found this link: http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000... When you put the sentence in the whole context, it becomes a lot clearer what the intended meaning is.
wherestip Apr 22, 2007:
Wenjer, I think this is a tough one. As you know, my first instinct was that these trademarks were co-owned as Forrest suggested(and I think the person in the English-English forum that stated trademarks cannot be co-owned wasn't quite accurate).
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
找到:
4. Factual Background
The Complainant is a worldwide leading retail group, created ... by Gérard Mulliez. In 1981, ... Today, ...
The Complainant is - among others - owner of the following registered trademarks:
请注意句子结构!
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1881336 非常有趣,我在每个语文里问,得到最多支持的答案都认为与 the following trademarks 有关。德文译者虽然有两个不同的答案,但两者都认为如此。西班牙文译者到目前为止也不例外。英文译者则有两种不同看法,但我想等着法律译者的证实。要不然我下一个要问法文及俄文译者了。
Julia Zou Apr 22, 2007:
没想到大家已经讨论了这么多了。我有些来迟了。关于句子结构的问题,我现在比较赞同Wenjer Leuschel的看法。用两个逗号可能是要比用破折号好一些。
Forrest Liang Apr 22, 2007:
单从hongsang给出的语境来看,“among other facts”和“among other owners”二者均有可能。到底是哪一个恐怕只有原文作者才清楚——而且这与概率无关:就算某一种可能的可能性只有1%,他都有可能就是那1%。因此我觉得我们在这里的讨论其实已经没有多大意义,我们的分歧只在于哪一种可能性更大罢了。而且到目前为止,双方票数还是大致相当。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
另外,我也问了英文翻译德文的译者同仁,他们以 4:1 的 peer agree 同意与我的看法相同的那位。 http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880766 英文译者反应还不够热烈,还要等他们天亮后更多人参与决定。 http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210 我想理解的是:母语者的语感是否与我们的相同。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
请注意看你的文本下文里有没有 "also" 字样。若有,我的猜测没错,among others 牵涉到 trademarks。若无,Sage Song 的“姑且不论其它”也是最恰当的译法,因为这样的措辞说的是 among other facts。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
Hongsang,我找到一個文本如下:
3. Factual Background
The Complainant is the owner, among others, of the registered trademarks 'XXX' and 'YYY' in A and in B, used in association especially with ABCD services.
The Complainant uses also the mark 'XYX' in ....
Forrest Liang Apr 22, 2007:
俺前面说“在中文中括号已有“或者”的意思”,其实英文中的括号也有这层意思;这里的两个dash其实等同于括号,即:The Complainant is the owner (among others) of the following trademarks.
Forrest Liang Apr 22, 2007:
上面最后的“是以下商标的拥有人(之一)。 ”请当不存在。
Forrest Liang Apr 22, 2007:
“Asker: 我觉得这个理解不正确。如果是这样的话,至少应该是“an owner"。”——我的回答:“是以下商标的拥有人(之一)。”意思是说此人有可能是单独拥有该商标,也可能是与别人共同拥有该商标:在中文中括号已有“或者”的意思。

当然,HuijunShuo 的理解“among others 是对“身份”的说明。。。。。。”也可以成立,但这需要更多上下文才能确定。


是以下商标的拥有人(之一)。

Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
Hongsang,我也认为 Huijun 的解说最为清楚。与本案有关的事实就是:原告确为列出的商标拥有者。
我们求证的不是谁强谁弱的问题,我怎么看,Sage Song 的那个说法最恰当,虽然后面的“首先”应该拿掉。
Forrest Liang Apr 22, 2007:
首先,请提供更多上下文——Proz上就有专业法律翻译的存在。
hongsang (asker) Apr 22, 2007:
是的,两个dash是原来就有的。不过在翻译这份文件中,我发现客户的语句时有瑕疵。让我周一的时候问一下客户,确定他们的表达没有错误。同时,我也发email去咨询一位专利商标方面的律师朋友,等他的回音。到时会跟大家说的。暂时我个人觉得HuijunShuo 的理解最能接受“among others 是对“身份”的说明,即原告对于下列商标可能还具有除所有者之外的其他身份,如使用者,授权人,领权人,代理人等,只不过这些可能与本案无关,所以不一一列举。”
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
The sentence is usually written either as "The Complainant is, among others, the owner of the following trademarks." or as "The Complainant is the owner of the following trademarks, among others."
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
Hongsang,可不可以请你说明一下,原句是否在 among others 的前后各设有一个 – (dash) 呢?这对语意的理解会有影响的。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
@Julia: 除此之外,Among other things he was interested in collecting old coins. 隐含的意思是“除了收集古钱币之外,他还有别的兴趣。”
Among other things hissing is considered rather rude. 隐含的意思是“除了嘘声之外,还有别的被认为是非常不礼貌的行为。”
因此,我说你翻译成“尤其”也可以。
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
@Jilia: 你的例句都是用 "Among others" 开头的,不是放在任何其它位置的,语法上当然没问题。但在 Hongsang 这句里,放的位置造成疑义。如果放在句尾或句头,则一点问题都没有。
Julia Zou Apr 22, 2007:
我觉得这句话的语法结构没什么问题。我在回答问题的时候已经给出了两个among others的例句。个人观点,仅供参考。:-)
Wenjer Leuschel (X) Apr 22, 2007:
Hongsang,由于这句话本身的结构有些瑕疵,造成相当的疑义,我一点也不断定我的解读最恰当,因为我无法确定 others 所指为“其它商标”。因此,我觉得最恰当的翻译可依据 Sage Song 的见解,改为:其它不论,投诉方确为以下商标的拥有者。
Julia Zou Apr 22, 2007:
将owner翻译成动词“拥有”如何?
试译:
原告尤其拥有以下商标:
Ozethai Apr 22, 2007:
ั有上下文好看吗?

Proposed translations

+2
7 mins
Selected

(除此之外) 至少

那個人除了下列商標的擁有人之外,可能還擁有別的商標,但至少他擁有下列商標。
Note from asker:
我觉得Wenjer Leuschel 这个解释比较合理。the owner-among others-of the following trademarks可能是法律上的固定说法,不能从语法结构上去分析。Sage Song "姑不论其它,首先是以下商标的所有者”的翻译简洁,但我觉得这个中文翻译看了后,人们还是会问“姑不论其它什么呢?” 还是模能两可。
Peer comment(s):

neutral Ozethai : What happens to semantic collocation?
8 hrs
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210 One of the answers is a non-native.
agree Julia Zou
21 hrs
Thanks. 我觉得 Sage Song 的“姑不论其它”最好。
neutral hewhew : I don't read the context but as the term complainant indicates I am somewhat sure that the complainant, as one of owners, brings a lawsuit or administrative proceeding against trademark infringer but in second sense other owners remain indifferent
1 day 1 hr
Could you explain why "the" owner of the following trademarks?
agree Danbing HE
3 days 21 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks a lot, Wenjer Leuschel. Thank you for your explanation, your deep research and your time. You are a very serious translator. I learned a lot from you. "
+4
35 mins

之一

是以下商标的拥有人(之一)。

我认为“among others”修饰的是“the owner ”。
Note from asker:
我觉得这个理解不正确。如果是这样的话,至少应该是“an owner"。
Peer comment(s):

agree Philip Tang
1 hr
Thank you, Commuease!
agree hewhew : right
1 hr
Thank you, hewhew!
agree H. J. Zhang : among other/all owners
2 hrs
Thank you, John!
agree Guei Lin
2 hrs
Thank you, Guei Lin!
agree Lily Zhang
5 hrs
Thank you, Lily!
agree Ozethai
8 hrs
Thank you, Ozethai!
disagree Wenjer Leuschel (X) : No, it isn't the case. http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210
20 hrs
Thank you for your information, Wenjer!
disagree jyuan_us : The origial means sth else.
1 day 4 hrs
谢谢评议!我并不否认Sage Song和Huijun Suo的答案,它们也是有可能的。但我仍觉得我所列的这种可能在这里概率较大。
Something went wrong...
+6
1 hr

别的姑且不论

别的姑且不论,首先是以下商标的所有者。
Note from asker:
这个翻译好像留给人太多揣测了。
再三思量,觉得 Huijun Suo的解释很有道理。
Peer comment(s):

agree Huijun Suo : among others 是对“身份”的说明,即原告对于下列商标可能还具有除所有者之外的其他身份,如使用者,授权人,领权人,代理人等,只不过这些可能与本案无关,所以不一一列举。
2 hrs
thanks!
agree jyuan_us : 这个比较逻辑。
14 hrs
thanks
agree Wenjer Leuschel (X) : Correct! 别的不用说,我原本也是这个意思。 http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210
19 hrs
thanks
agree Shaunna (X) : 同意。和Huijun一样的想法。而且,如果是说他是拥有者之一,一定不会用“... is THE owner...”,而是会用 is ONE/AN owner...
21 hrs
thanks!
agree Zhoudan
21 hrs
thanks!
agree ysun : “among others” = “among other facts”. It is a FACT that “The Complainant is the owner of the following trademarks.”
1 day 2 hrs
neutral hewhew : 原告具有其它身份,这不符合逻辑, 商标所有人不可能成为自己的代理人, 代理人是代理委托人实施代理事项,委托人不可能委托自己代理自己的事务. 成为领权人? 这应该是台湾的说法吧,大陆应该是被许可人,就是获得商标所有人的许可,从而能够使用商标的人,所有人有必要许可自己使用自己合法所有的商标吗? 商标所有者当然可以自己使用,也可以许可他人使用,在这样的情况下,他可以成为许可人,既授权人, 但是文中这样表达有必要吗,
1 day 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

FYI - I agree with Forrest Liang

是不是说投诉方是以下商标的唯一拥有者呢? NO!

I agree with Forrest Liang, “among others” is a prepositional phrase modifying the OWNER;

Take away the – among others – you have a perfectly clear sentence -
“The complainant is the owner of the following trademarks.

However, if the complainant is not the sole owner of all that trademarks, then
He is the owner, (among other owners) (along with many other owners), of the following trademarks.


Looking from a different perspective:
“AMONG OTHERS” modifies “TRADEMARKS” most unlikely -
if the “among others” meant to modify “trademarks”, it should be placed after “trademarks” (always put the modifier next to the term to be modified).
But I don’t think so – if other trademarks are not important enough to be listed, it’s not worth the effort to be mentioned (with a modifier).

Plus, even the writer thinks it’s necessary to use a modifier to indicate an “incomplete list (of trademarks), then
“…..trademarks, plus many others” would be clearer and logical than
“…..trademarks, among others.
Peer comment(s):

agree Forrest Liang : 谢谢你的支持和详尽分析!
13 mins
My pleaure!
agree Ozethai
6 hrs
Thank you, Ozethai!
disagree Wenjer Leuschel (X) : http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210
18 hrs
Have read your ref. site, some come close to my opion, others different. I will keep my opinion; grammar rules!
Something went wrong...
+1
5 mins

尤其

The Complainant is the owner –among others- of the following trademarks
是所有者,尤其是以下商标的所有者。

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2007-04-21 02:48:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

eg.
尤其,其中(=among others). Among other things he was interested in collecting old coins. 他尤其对收集古钱币特别感兴趣。 Among other things hissing is considered rather rude. 诸多行为中,尤以发嘘声被认为是非常不礼貌的行为。 ↘今日一句 ...
psweb.swufe.edu.cn/~eco2002/xuexi.htm - 2k - 补充材料 - 网页快照 - 类似网页

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2007-04-21 02:56:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

更正一下:原告/投诉者尤其为以下商标的所有者

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2007-04-21 13:32:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

会不会是说原告除了是下面这些商标的所有着,还有可能是其它商标的所有者呢?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day34 mins (2007-04-22 03:13:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

我还是觉得这里是要强调原告是以下商标的所有者。

原告尤其拥有以下商标:

这样翻译如何?好像比”原告尤其拥有以下商标“好一些。
Note from asker:
我一开始觉得这个翻译有照搬中文现有翻译之嫌,不适合用在这里。后来我反复琢磨among的英文解释之一“in addition to...",想到既然是“in addition to other things"," 除了其它的”,又不明确指出其它的东西,那就是说指出来的东西更重要,这样翻成“尤其”也就挺合适的了。但仅是翻成“尤其”,句子的含义还是不够清楚。
Peer comment(s):

neutral Ozethai : 字词的意思是翻对了,但字词的位置在这特别重要。通常不应该这么了解的。
9 hrs
Thank you for your advice, Ozethai!
agree Wenjer Leuschel (X) : 也可以这么说。 http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210
21 hrs
谢谢Wenjer! 真是个好办法!
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

这个商标可能是共有商标或者集体商标,在这样的情况下,商标所有人不止一人.

可以翻译成: 投诉人是下列商标所有人中的一人.

供参考

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2007-04-22 04:49:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Could you explain why "the" owner of the following trademarks?
____________________________________________________
I cannot add my explanation there. i don't understand what is to be clarified, the phrase, "among others" can be used to modify owner or trademark, but as can be seen from where it is located, namely in a place immediately following the owner, it is obvious that it is meant to modify the owner.

what is the phrase, "the following trademarks" meant to express here. I am not sure since i have not read the context, but it is possible that all of the trademarks would be those against which the infringement is targeted.
Note from asker:
这个说法和Forrest Liang是一样的。我觉得不妥。
Peer comment(s):

agree Ozethai
6 hrs
disagree Wenjer Leuschel (X) : http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1880210
18 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 20 hrs

FYI

It means to say the owner owns other things aside from
'the following trademarks'.

I came up with this conclusion because I dissected the sentence --- diagramming.

The complainant is the owner - among others - of the following trademarks.


The complanant is the owner & the owner is the complainant.

'among others' & 'owner of the following trademarks' both describes the owner.

'among others' is delineated with hyphens, meaning it is non-essential to the whole sentence, it just give additional information about the 'owner'

'among others' does not describe the 'trademarks', beside it doesn't make sence to say --- owner of thr following trademaks among other [trademarks], plus the fact it said 'following trademarks', the owner already owns a lot of trademarks.

I can't type Chinese character with computer that I am using right now, I'll use PINYIN, hope it makes sense to you.


yuan gao chu le yong you xia le shang biao de suo you chuan zhi wai, ta hai yong you qi ta chan ye.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Huijun Suo : Another interesting suggestion! I type the Chinese for you: 原告除了拥有下列商标的所有权之外,他/她还拥有其他产业。
19 hrs
Thanks for your help!
Something went wrong...
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