| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Poll: If you are paid by target word count, do you consciously try to write a wordier translation? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "If you are paid by target word count, do you consciously try to write a wordier translation?".
This poll was originally submitted by Oliver Lawrence. View the poll results »
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I usually charge my customers per source word, but (there is always a "but") one of my clients (a Portuguese media group) asks to be charged per target character but I wouldn’t dream of making the translation wordier because of that. Isn't that unethical? I always use as many or as few words as I see fit whatever the counting method…
| | | | | What an old poll this is | Jul 30, 2021 |
I must have suggested it about 10 years ago. I would never agree to be paid by target word. Ever. But for those who do, there's a perverse incentive to avoid investing time in the essential step of editing your draft down into something pithier, clearer and more elegant. So let's hope no one falls into that trap. Which would be unethical indeed.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 14:03
Spanish to English
+ ...
Because honesty is the best policy.
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| Swell factor and quotes | Jul 30, 2021 |
I have been paid by target word once or twice I think, when small the agency had to give a quote to the client, but for some reason the source word count was not available (was it a scanned PDF? I don't remember).
It was my first project with this agency. They were impressed that I had sent them my Terms of Service, and I was impressed that they gave me a call.
More agencies should do it. It is an easy way to confirm they are speaking with the right person, who knows th... See more I have been paid by target word once or twice I think, when small the agency had to give a quote to the client, but for some reason the source word count was not available (was it a scanned PDF? I don't remember).
It was my first project with this agency. They were impressed that I had sent them my Terms of Service, and I was impressed that they gave me a call.
More agencies should do it. It is an easy way to confirm they are speaking with the right person, who knows their trade and does not blink an eye when the PM asks if they know what is the expansion factor* (taux/coefficient de foisonnement, in French) for their language pair.
It is 20-30% per cent for English to French, by the way. How many of us include this factor in their pricing?
Of course, given enough time and skill, the expansion factor becomes mostly irrelevant. Or in the words of an esteemed colleague:It is not uncommon for a translator to give lessons in clarity [and readability] to the sloppy authors they translate.
* Expansion factor: A numerical value that indicates the difference in length between the target text and the source text and that is based on the statistical analysis of many translations. Synonym: Swell factor.
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Je n'ai fait cette lettre-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte.
I have only made this letter longer because I have not had the time to make it shorter.
Blaise Pascal
1623 - 1662
Now, this would be a funny apology for a translator getting paid according to target language word count. "Dear [PM], I have only made this translation longer because…"
[Edited at 2021-07-30 23:41 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | My best long-term client pays by target character count ... | Jul 30, 2021 |
... and I do the same for them as for all clients: take pride in translations that read like they've been originally written in Dutch. No word diarrhoea 
| | | | | That metric makes not much sense | Jul 30, 2021 |
I never heard of clients/agencies paying by target word. Clients and agencies are very keen on knowing the word count and cost before starting the project, and this is only possible with the source words or other source metrics.
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Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:
I never heard of clients/agencies paying by target word. Clients and agencies are very keen on knowing the word count and cost before starting the project, and this is only possible with the source words or other source metrics.
It does make sense when you have a poor pdf or paper document and there is trust between the two parties.
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| | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 07:03
English to Russian
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| Save a few recent years, | Jul 30, 2021 |
when I could no longer fight the opposite and saw no need or desire to do so, as I no longer depend on translation and it's only a supplemental income to interpretation, I was charging by target words only, for 25 years. Still do whenever possible. I never offer a final price, only my rates, and agree to any fixed price only after a careful consideration and reviewing the job. What "trap", what "incentive"???
This poll reminds me of another totally ridiculous one about intentional... See more when I could no longer fight the opposite and saw no need or desire to do so, as I no longer depend on translation and it's only a supplemental income to interpretation, I was charging by target words only, for 25 years. Still do whenever possible. I never offer a final price, only my rates, and agree to any fixed price only after a careful consideration and reviewing the job. What "trap", what "incentive"???
This poll reminds me of another totally ridiculous one about intentional quality drop due to the lower rates. If you can swim, you can swim, you can't start drowning intentionally because you are in a local pool and not in the Caribbean Sea. Can you possibly start writing poorly for whatever reason? Do you know how?
In fact, it's been proven many times - the better the translator is, the smaller the word count difference is in EN-Ru-En pair. Plus, why should I be paid for the words written by someone else? I want to be paid for my thoughts and words.
Cheaters can find their way around under any circumstances. Why impose such suspicion on everyone? Senseless word packing would sell you out immediately. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elke Fehling 
Local time: 14:03
Member (2005)
English to German
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Who would admit doing something like that?
I used to be paid by target line, and I thought about that. I didn't do it, though, because I didn't want to get a couple of Euros in exchange für a bad translation.
Nowadays most people are paid by source word.
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 09:03
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
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| What kind of question is this? | Jul 30, 2021 |
To begin with, in 99% of the jobs the words are counted in the original text, not in the target. Our clients are not stupid. At least in my case, English to Portuguese, since the target language is naturally already 20% to 40% wordier than the original.
And in the remaining 1% of the cases, what kind of professional would do that? I'll answer that question myself: the kind that will never admit it to anyone, of course!
[Edited at 2021-07-30 16:00 GMT]
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 14:03
French to English
I'm amazed that people still bill target words!
Last century, we used to bill target at the agency.
At a point when clients were increasingly emailing attachments instead of faxing their documents to us, but before we had started billing source, I had to outsource a translation. I sent it to a guy, mentioning that we had estimated a wordcount of {whatever} based on how many target words there would probably be. He called, saying he would bill source. The boss overheard,... See more I'm amazed that people still bill target words!
Last century, we used to bill target at the agency.
At a point when clients were increasingly emailing attachments instead of faxing their documents to us, but before we had started billing source, I had to outsource a translation. I sent it to a guy, mentioning that we had estimated a wordcount of {whatever} based on how many target words there would probably be. He called, saying he would bill source. The boss overheard, got a bit stroppy and told him that he was to bill target and flounced off. As a result, he didn't hear the translator's answer that "OK in that case I shan't bother being succinct".
I decided to send the translation to another translator, who was happy to bill target, but I did start campaigning seriously to start billing source at that point. I explained that it would make less work for me if I didn't have to whittle wordiness away, and the boss was actually losing money in that wordy translators were billing more words that we were, with target-billed translations coming out shorter once I'd edited them... ▲ Collapse
| | | | IrinaN
United States
Local time: 07:03
English to Russian
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| I worked for stupid people all my life :-) | Jul 30, 2021 |
Mario Freitas wrote:
the kind that will never admit it to anyone
[Edited at 2021-07-30 16:00 GMT]
This calls for an apology, dear colleague.
Actually, it was European influence and globalization that brought source word count to the US about 5-7 years ago. Until then, it was target all along.
[Edited at 2021-07-30 16:23 GMT]
| | | | Gian Augello
Spain
Local time: 14:03
English to Spanish
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| The count is base on the original text | Jul 30, 2021 |
It makes no sense to pay per word based on the number of words in the target text. But in case someone wants to pay that way, it is dishonest to try to make it longer.
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