| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Google Ads here - out of control? (staff: 'thanks, steps have been taken') Thread poster: Stephanie Wloch
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Aniello Scognamiglio (X) 
Germany
Local time: 09:20
English to German
+ ...
| It could do harm to the ProZ.com image | Jan 16, 2009 |
Steffen Walter wrote:
Hi all,
I strongly believe that staff should reconsider the use (or enabling on the site) of these ads, and disable them/discontinue their use for good. This is just not in line with the profesional image the site wants to convey according to its mission.
I fully agree, Steffen!
| | | | Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 03:20
Spanish to English
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| Google adsense ads on ProZ.com | Jan 16, 2009 |
Thank you all for your input and feedback on this topic.
Let's separate the issues.
Regarding AdSense ads on ProZ.com in general. They are only displayed to non-logged in visitors, so any community member or site user that is logged in should never see these ads. There was an error on the forum overview that displayed these ads to members and has since been fixed (thank you Tuliparola for bringing this to our attention). Regarding the impression of ProZ.com that th... See more Thank you all for your input and feedback on this topic.
Let's separate the issues.
Regarding AdSense ads on ProZ.com in general. They are only displayed to non-logged in visitors, so any community member or site user that is logged in should never see these ads. There was an error on the forum overview that displayed these ads to members and has since been fixed (thank you Tuliparola for bringing this to our attention). Regarding the impression of ProZ.com that these ads might give to non logged in visitors – this is a valid point and one we are working on resolving. Advertising income in general, including Google AdSense income supports many site features and removing them completely from the site is perhaps not the best option.
Regarding the ads in question displayed in this forum. Google AdSense works by displaying ads on a page that are contextually relevant to the content of that page. Because this thread was started with a post (content) about dating ads it is no surprise that Google “thinks” this page is about dating and displays ever increasing volumes of dating ads. We generally do not have many of these offending ads on the site as they usually are not contextually relevant. Most AdSense ads are language related. The ads displayed on this forum thread should not be viewed as a typical sample of AdSense ads on ProZ.com
Unfortunately Google does not currently permit publishers like ProZ.com to filter ads by category – ie we cannot select “no dating ads”. Instead they provide publishers with a way of blocking ads on a url by url basis. We continually update this list to filter out undesired ads. I have just searched google and copied the url for the top 100 dating ads and added those to the url block. But these dating advertisers tend to just create new urls and the process starts all over again. (The ad block filter will take a few hours to be in effect).
We are working on a means to be able to identify those that visit the site as a non-logged in user and differentiate between casual visitors to the site and those that are more likely to register and become ProZians.
So in summation – Google AdSense ads are not shown to any logged in users. The “dating” ads are not commonly displayed on ProZ.com and only appear on this forum repeatedly as this forums content is about dating ads. We will continue to update and block any offending ads that appear. Additionally ProZ.com is working on a way to effectively display AdSense ads while presenting a professional image to non-logged in visitors to the site.
Thank you for your comments and feedback.
Drew ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Those casual visitors are OUR potential clients, not ProZ's, so it is a problem | Jan 16, 2009 |
Drew MacFadyen wrote:
We are working on a means to be able to identify those that visit the site as a non-logged in user and differentiate between casual visitors to the site and those that are more likely to register and become ProZians.
So in summation – Google AdSense ads are not shown to any logged in users. The “dating” ads are not commonly displayed on ProZ.com and only appear on this forum repeatedly as this forums content is about dating ads. We will continue to update and block any offending ads that appear. Additionally ProZ.com is working on a way to effectively display AdSense ads while presenting a professional image to non-logged in visitors to the site.
Thank you for your comments and feedback.
Drew
Thank you for heating our concerns Drew, but those casual visitors are our potential clients. ProZ has a high Google rating, so many potential clients are directed straight to out profiles or the forums. As Steffen said, those ads don't go in line with a professional image, but not just ProZ's. We also want to transmit a professional image, and web-sites that display Google Ads don't scream professionalism, so we might be losing potential clients.
If ProZ will not get rid of the ads, I'd much rather have them displayed to logged members and not to those casual visitors.
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 10:20
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| Have to agree there :) | Jan 16, 2009 |
Uldis
Claudia Alvis wrote:
If ProZ will not get rid of the ads, I'd much rather have them displayed to logged members and not to those casual visitors.
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Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 03:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Clarification | Jan 16, 2009 |
I did not intend my use of casual to mean potential clients.
A better descriptor would be a lay person not interested in anyway in language or translation.
That’s what we are working on in terms of differentiation in delivery. Identifying potential clients for ProZ.com site users based on the search term and landing page versus traffic from persons that have no interest in language or translation services.
The goal is to provide visitors with what they... See more I did not intend my use of casual to mean potential clients.
A better descriptor would be a lay person not interested in anyway in language or translation.
That’s what we are working on in terms of differentiation in delivery. Identifying potential clients for ProZ.com site users based on the search term and landing page versus traffic from persons that have no interest in language or translation services.
The goal is to provide visitors with what they are seeking. If someone searches google for the word welding helmet and they are given results that include a proz.com/kudoz page on welding helmets they are more than likely looking for welding helmets and not translation related services. When these users land on a ProZ.com/kudoz/welding_helmet page that has an AdSense contextual ad for miller electric welding helmets they are likely to click on that ad - its what they are looking for, information on welding helmets. We are working on being able to properly direct searchers that come to proz.com with search terms related to translation to the proper areas without displaying any Google ads.
Please keep in mind that Google AdSense ads are not on profile pages, not on the home page, not on the directory, or job post areas or most areas where a potential client would likely visit.
Drew ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stephanie Wloch
Germany
Local time: 09:20
Member (2003)
Dutch to German
TOPIC STARTER | | Very unfortunate | Mar 9, 2009 |
But seems to be the way things are now and are going to remain, if one reads Drew's replies. Most other commercial translator/translation-type sites have these ads as well. Agree they don't make a good impression, however they do make you aware you will be entering a commercial site, whatever the site may be about.
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 09:20
English to German
+ ...
| Damaging our reputation! | Mar 12, 2009 |
Unfortunately, there are more than 4 ads and there are banners too:
Find your Ukrainian beauty today!
Join free! Browse fotos now!
Sexy Ukraine Girls
Ukrainian Girls and Women are looking for Love
www.Online-Dating-Ukraine.com
Single Baltic Lady
Sexy women from Baltic countries are looking for true love
www.Single-Baltic-Lady.com
Femmes Ukraine
Rencontrez Des Femmes D'Ukraine À La Recherche De L'Âme Soeur!
www.RussianEuro.com
Ukraine marriage agency
Ukraine women from Odessa Find beautiful bride in Ukraine now
www.odessalove.com
This issue was also addressed in this forum:
http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/126820-google_ads_and_proz_image-page2.html
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Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 03:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Improvements to filter dating ads | Mar 12, 2009 |
Part of the revenue stream that ProZ.com uses to support its members and to pay for the support, development and equipment used to deliver the site is derived by showing ads to non-members and non-logged in visitors. The vast majority of these non logged in visitors to the site are not interested in translation or translation services - we know this based on their entry, time on site and behavior - in particular clicking on google adsense ads.
ProZ.com is not interfering with the... See more Part of the revenue stream that ProZ.com uses to support its members and to pay for the support, development and equipment used to deliver the site is derived by showing ads to non-members and non-logged in visitors. The vast majority of these non logged in visitors to the site are not interested in translation or translation services - we know this based on their entry, time on site and behavior - in particular clicking on google adsense ads.
ProZ.com is not interfering with the content, nor are the advertisements intermingled with profile information. While ProZ.com understands and appreciates your concerns, potential clients will be posting jobs, using the directories and looking at your profiles, none of which have Google Ads.
Never the less I have diligently been adding any dating site to our competitive filter. Additionally we contacted our representative at Google and have made special arrangements for Google to block text ads with specific key words like dating and sexy. This will not block the image ads from showing but will block the text based ads.
Here is a link to a screenshot I took of the Ukraine office thread this morning while not logged in http://www.proz.com/file_resources/other/5a6fe0d541c00a292de34228957a10ae_non-logged-in-screen.png
as you can see there are no dating ads on my end.
We are also working on differentiating the delivery of these ads based on search term and entry to the site.
Some of you have suggested nothing short of a complete removal of Google AdSense ads.
Based on the potential loss of revenue and the detrimental effect that would have on the ability of ProZ.com to deliver the quality services that our community relies on, we will not remove the ads entirely but will continue to work on effective differentiation and delivery based on visitor type.
Regards,
Drew ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 09:20
English to German
+ ...
| Part of the problem solved | Mar 12, 2009 |
Hi Drew,
Thanks for your comments. I feel certain key issues are still unresolved.
Part of the revenue stream that ProZ.com uses to support its members and to pay for the support, development and equipment used to deliver the site is derived by showing ads to non-members and non-logged in visitors. The vast majority of these non logged in visitors to the site are not interested in translation or translation services - we know this based on their entry, time on site and behavior - in particular clicking on google adsense ads.
And what about potential end clients, who might be attracted to the ProZ.com forum through a targeted search related to a language issue? Picture the COO of a medium-sized manufacturer of sophisticated medical instruments (I made this one up, but you catch my drift) looking for a specialist to localise their website - what perception will that potential client get when he is 'greeted' with ads for personal medication?
ProZ.com is not interfering with the content,
That's a part of the problem...
nor are the advertisements intermingled with profile information.
...only shown next to profile icons.
While ProZ.com understands and appreciates your concerns, potential clients will be posting jobs, using the directories and looking at your profiles, none of which have Google Ads.
The question is: how many potential clients are either turned off by strange ads before even touching a profile? How many will dispense with the chore of having to search for that specialist who spent time and money honing his/her profile and paying for membership - instead just clicking on the ad by an agency who'll do it all for them?
Do you see what I'm getting at?
Never the less I have diligently been adding any dating site to our competitive filter.
Bad news: there's thousands of them out there...
Additionally we contacted our representative at Google and have made special arrangements for Google to block text ads with specific key words like dating and sexy. This will not block the image ads from showing but will block the text based ads.
Have a look at your spam filter for creative ways to circumvent such filters.
Thanks for taking action to remedy this particular case. But I can't help the feeling that the underlying issue is unresolved.
Some of you have suggested nothing short of a complete removal of Google AdSense ads.
Fully seconded!
Based on the potential loss of revenue and the detrimental effect that would have on the ability of ProZ.com to deliver the quality services that our community relies on, we will not remove the ads entirely but will continue to work on effective differentiation and delivery based on visitor type.
Have you considered raising membership fees in return for a site that is free of any advertising not directly related to our industry? I would certainly pay up for that.
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | | Fully agree with all of Ralf's comments and ... | Mar 12, 2009 |
Drew MacFadyen wrote:
The vast majority of these non logged in visitors to the site are not interested in translation or translation services - we know this based on their entry, time on site and behavior - in particular clicking on google adsense ads.
... would like to add two comments that I consider important.
Firstly, who's more important here? The "vast majority of non logged in visitors to the site who are not interested in translation or translation services"? Or the community of translation pros that this site is supposed to be - as Henry never tires of reminding us - and many members of which are paying for using the services the site has to offer?
And secondly, how can you know - based on their entry, time on site and behavior - that the vast majority of these non logged in visitors to the site are not interested in translation or translation services? I was under the impression that GoogleAnalytics had been discontinued and that no other tool for tracking visitor behaviour would be used without informing the members first.
Please explain.
Best wishes,
LB
[Edited at 2009-03-12 14:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-03-12 14:31 GMT]
| | | | Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 03:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Differentiation based on search term | Mar 12, 2009 |
Hi Ralf. And what about potential end clients, who might be attracted to the ProZ.com forum through a targeted search related to a language issue? Picture the COO of a medium-sized manufacturer of sophisticated medical instruments (I made this one up, but you catch my drift) looking for a specialist to localise their website - what perception will that potential client get when he is 'greeted' with ads for personal medication?
This is precisely what we are working on in terms of being able to differentiate visitors based on targeted search terms. This is a complicated and involved process and we are working on it. When completed, users that come to proz.com via a search term related to the translation industry will not be shown Google ads.
Have you considered raising membership fees in return for a site that is free of any advertising not directly related to our industry? I would certainly pay up for that.
The revenue generated by Google ads is very significant and we could not simply "raise" membership to compensate. An increase of the magnitude we're talking about would mean many would not join or renew.
And secondly, how can you know - based on their entry, time on site and behavior - that the vast majority of these non logged in visitors to the site are not interested in translation or translation services? I was under the impression that GoogleAnalytics had been discontinued and that no other tool for tracking visitor behaviour would be used without informing the members first.
We are not using Google analytics, but we have historical data, we have Google Adsense data, and we have our own internal server data. Again, we are working on a means to be able to identify potential end clients based on industry related search terms and prevent Google ads being delivered to them. Of the 1,000's of search terms that drive traffic to ProZ.com daily the ratio of non industry related terms to industry terms is 100 to 1 or greater. Very few industry related search terms land on forums, most go to our home page, the directory, or profile pages - where there are no Google ads.
Regards,
Drew
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Drew MacFadyen wrote:
...This is a complicated and involved process and we are working on it. When completed, users that come to proz.com via a search term related to the translation industry will not be shown Google ads.
What about people who are given the URL of the homepage and they type it directly into the address bar? What about people who click on a Google ad for ProZ on a site otherwise unrelated to translation?
The revenue generated by Google ads is very significant and we could not simply "raise" membership to compensate. An increase of the magnitude we're talking about would mean many would not join or renew.
Hmmmm... This sounds very business-like. Are you saying that increasing ProZ's profit margin is a priority above ensuring that the clientele, a large part of which pays, gets what they were promised out of the site? You know, there was a time when ProZ didn't need Google ads or any other advertizement to get by. Paying members paid for pretty much all expenses. Everybody was happy. Maybe yearning for a fatter wallet ruined it all... Don't you think that the magnitude you are talking about is proportionate with the magnitude of people leaving the site because they are not very keen of agencies being advertized right on the home page?
| | | | Drew MacFadyen
United States
Local time: 03:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Please see previous posts | Mar 12, 2009 |
What about people who are given the URL of the homepage and they type it directly into the address bar? What about people who click on a Google ad for ProZ.com on a site otherwise unrelated to translation?
Please refer to my previous posts - we are working on differentiating the adsense delivery and will ultimately only deliver to those that come from search on non translation industry terms - ie those that type the url directly will not be displayed adsense ads - likewise those that come from a link to proz.com on any other site will not be delivered adsense ads. When development work is completed, ads will be shown to those coming via search using non industry related terms.
Hmmmm... This sounds very business-like. Are you saying that increasing ProZ's profit margin is a priority above ensuring that the clientele, a large part of which pays, gets what they were promised out of the site?
No, what I am saying is why would we simply disregard the 100,000 non industry visitors that come to our site? This google adsense revenue helps us keep the site up and running for all users.
You know, there was a time when ProZ.com didn't need Google ads or any other advertisement to get by. Paying members paid for pretty much all expenses. Everybody was happy.
And at that time there was but a few employees - we have over 25 now with multiple offices. Would you be happy with slower support times, lack of development and improvements? Slower page load times? This line of income is not to fatten a wallet but to support the site and develop additional features. We have used this income to subsidize many efforts that do not generate income but are appreciated and used by community members never the less.
Don't you think that the magnitude you are talking about is proportionate with the magnitude of people leaving the site because they are not very keen of agencies being advertized right on the home page?
Again please see my previous posts - no Google adsense ads are displayed on the home page - ever. And no I don't agree with your assertion at all - unfortunately i cannot give you specific traffic and revenue details but it is my oppinion that the magnitude of income from adsense ads far exceeds potential loss of visitors due to adsense ads.
Drew
| | | | | I would love to have specific details and knowledge | Mar 12, 2009 |
Drew MacFadyen wrote:
...And without specific knowledge and details you should not think this either.
If you are willing to give me the specific knowledge and details, I am willing to get a complete picture. With all due respect, Drew, I find your remark rather belittling (just short of a "shut your mouth"). Someone posted a topic, others are commenting on it, then you come in and tell me that I shouldn't have an opinion. The fact is, the problem IS there, it IS bothering me, I can safely conclude that it is affecting my dealings on this site, and telling me that the little details I have access to doesn't habilitate me to discuss the matter is just plain rude.
Maybe when I first started using the site, there were only thirty or forty thousand users because that's how many serious, true professionals there are on the planet. It seems to me that, rather than wanting to grow with that crowd and offer them the tools they need, ProZ chose to broaden its horizons and become everything to everybody. So we now have all varieties of "translators", including the one that posts a forum thread asking where the ANY key is. It's only normal that with a crowd of this size, ProZ also needs to have more employees (and with the kind of crowd this is turning into, it's only normal that each of your clients cost more per capita). But had ProZ not been so avid in trying to turn half the planet into so-called translators, so they can soon after become paying members, maybe all the problems being actively discussed in the forum today wouldn't be around. Then, there wouldn't have been a need for Google ads, either.
And now, to thank loyal members who have been paying to be a part of this crumbling castle (and who have helped build its foundation), we get a yellow star. And insults.
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