| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Bilingual vs. monolingual dictionaries Thread poster: Phil Hand
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Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 01:17
Chinese to English
I was wondering how other people use bilingual dictionaries and monolingual dictionaries. I try to use monolingual resources when I can, but sometimes I find that a bilingual dictionary helps to cut through the fog a bit. For example, there are many, many characters in Chinese that can mean "beautiful". A monolingual dictionary entry will often try to explain exactly which variety of beautiful it means ("graceful and wholesome"), quite often leaving me none the wiser. Bilingual dictionary entrie... See more I was wondering how other people use bilingual dictionaries and monolingual dictionaries. I try to use monolingual resources when I can, but sometimes I find that a bilingual dictionary helps to cut through the fog a bit. For example, there are many, many characters in Chinese that can mean "beautiful". A monolingual dictionary entry will often try to explain exactly which variety of beautiful it means ("graceful and wholesome"), quite often leaving me none the wiser. Bilingual dictionary entries inevitably simplify, often just giving "beautiful", and frankly that can be more helpful sometimes.
But I'm interested to hear how others use their resources. I've been thinking for a while that my ideal set up would be good monolingual source language dictionary + good target language thesaurus; but maybe that's wrong. Maybe there is a place for the bilingual dictionary as well. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | bilingual dictionaries play only a marginal role in my work | Oct 9, 2014 |
Edited to say: Thank you for a great question, Phil!
If I don't know precisely what a source-language word means in a given situation, then I look it up in a monolingual dictionary or may search online for concrete examples of its use online. I then usually come up with the target-language word.
I use MS Word's thesaurus in the target language fairly often: in terms of content, it's no better than okay, but it's incredibly convenient.
If the word doesn't co... See more Edited to say: Thank you for a great question, Phil!
If I don't know precisely what a source-language word means in a given situation, then I look it up in a monolingual dictionary or may search online for concrete examples of its use online. I then usually come up with the target-language word.
I use MS Word's thesaurus in the target language fairly often: in terms of content, it's no better than okay, but it's incredibly convenient.
If the word doesn't come to me, then I do sometimes use the free online binlingual dictionary dict.cc as a crutch: It is not great, but once again, it is very convenient, and (at least for German > English) a few good options are usually hidden in there somewhere, so it is actually very good if you are translating into your native language in a field that you are entirely familiar with and if you use your brain and a monolingual source dictionary before taking a look at it.
I also use Wikipedia's cross references between languages a lot (with subsequent checking in a monolingual target general or specialized dictionary), because here you can actually get a good idea of whether the linked terms really describe the same concept. Searching past KudoZ results isn't bad either, although I don't do it as often, because it is not as convenient.
I also have a source-language dictionary of architectural terms that includes translations, but I always check them using an architectural dictionary in my target language. I also occasionally use bilingual dictionaries for unfamiliar bits of other foreign languages in my German source texts.
I would never use something like Langenscheidt's or another general bilingual dictionary: They are only dependable in the cases where you don't need them anyway.
So bilingual reference materials certainly do play a role in my translation process, but it is a fairly marginal one.
[Edited at 2014-10-09 09:55 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mailand
Local time: 19:17
Member (2009)
Italian to German
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| When stuck .... | Oct 9, 2014 |
I more or less subscribe to Michael's use of dictionaries, but would like to point out another moment when I use bilingual ones .... Sometimes you are mentally stuck - you know exactly that the word you are looking for is somewhere in your brain, but it won't come out - seeing it in print or online usually unlocks it!
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:17
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I use only electronic sources, both monolingual and bilingual | Oct 9, 2014 |
Phil Hand wrote:
I was wondering how other people use bilingual dictionaries and monolingual dictionaries. I try to use monolingual resources when I can, but sometimes I find that a bilingual dictionary helps to cut through the fog a bit.
I only use a monolingual reference in my source language if I don't understand what a word means or if I suspect that there may be more to it. And then I use mostly google (Wikipedia being my first port of call). I rarely consult a monolingual dictionary in my source language. I do have one in my target language, though, which I check mostly when I'm revising someone else's translation, to check if a certain word or phrase is acceptable. For the rest, I use a general bilingual dictionary (half a million entries) plus any subject-specific word lists or dictionaries that I may have.
I cut up and scanned all of my dictionaries and search them using an indexing program (I currently still use RedTree's Wilbur), which enables me to group dictionaries into categories and search them all at once. For example, when doing pharmaceutical translations, the search would include two medical dictionaries, a nursing dictionary and a chemistry dictionary.
Some online resources can't be downloaded, so you're forced to search via the web site, which is risky, because one day the resource may end up not being there anymore.
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Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 01:17
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Bilingual dictionaries often serve a similar role to thesauruses. They can give you alternatives - sometimes better ones - to the first word that comes to mind.
I have found monolingual dictionaries all but useless when translating any specialist material. Knowing what a technical term means will not help you find the appropriate specific translation in the target language.
[Edited at 2014-10-09 12:21 GMT]
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Impressed...! | Oct 9, 2014 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
I cut up and scanned all of my dictionaries and search them using an indexing program (I currently still use RedTree's Wilbur)
Wow! You literally cut up paper dictionaries and scanned them manually?
I guess this means 8 hours work per average volume, scanning only, + recognition...
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I will use one if I accidentally fall into the "grey zone" between source and target languages (which can happen when one of my children talks to me in franglais just when I'm in the middle of a translation and the term in question is a false friend): it's the quickest way of being sure my native instinct has kicked back in fully!
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 19:17
Spanish to English
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I tend to agree with Lincoln, and in fact I use bilingual dictionaries most often. In fact the only monolingual one I use with any frequency is the DRAE for Spanish.
Is it my imagination or do I perceive a sort of widespread disregard for bilingual dictionaries (and/or those who use them) as somehow inferior?
PS: I mean those "confessing" to using them seem almost apologetic. I see them as just another tool...
[Edited at 2014-10-09 18:48 GMT]
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 19:17
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Cutting and scanning | Oct 9, 2014 |
Luca Tutino wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
I cut up and scanned all of my dictionaries and search them using an indexing program (I currently still use RedTree's Wilbur). Wow! You literally cut up paper dictionaries and scanned them manually? I guess this means 8 hours work per average volume, scanning only, + recognition...
I used a knife to cut the pages out, then used a paper cutter to cut the pages all the same size, and then I used a scanner with a document feeder. Then I threw the paper dictionaries in the trash.
The most time-consuming task is making sure all the images are there (no skipped pages) and making sure their file names are in sequential order (for that, I used Excel and MS DOS). Then I OCR'ed them to plain text, with 1 image = 1 file (same file name). This allows me to see in the search results on what page an entry is, so that I can double-check the actual image file if I'm uncertain about OCR errors. For some dictionaries you have to use the filters in XnView to make them OCR-able (for example, if a dictionary uses tiny dots on its pages for colouration, the OCR program will not be able to distinguish the dots from the letters, so you have to use a smudge filter to turn the dots into smears, and then the OCR program will see the letters).
I'm extremely glad that the most autoritative monolingual and bilingual general dictionaries in my language actually come on CD-ROM, because it would have taken ages to scan them (their paper versions use very large pages and ultra-thin paper).
[Edited at 2014-10-09 19:51 GMT]
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 01:17
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Not your imagination | Oct 9, 2014 |
neilmac wrote:
Is it my imagination or do I perceive a sort of widespread disregard for bilingual dictionaries...
It's part of what I was getting at, because I have been feeling that way. There are a couple of reasons: first, it's a function of my feeling glad to have finally got to the point where I could use a monolingual dictionary - it's a bit of a milestone in my knowledge of the language. Second, the bilingual dictionaries in my pair aren't that good. So for a while now I have been deliberately aiming to minimize use of bilingual dictionaries.
But then I was wondering why I do still turn back to them sometimes, hence the post. And Lincoln's answers ring very true - especially about specialist terminology.
Thank you all for your answers. I hope to see some more!
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 01:17
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Adequate for need | Oct 9, 2014 |
Second, the bilingual dictionaries in my pair aren't that good.
I've actually found the most common online dictionaries for laymen to be perfectly adequate, Yahoo TW for everyday use and iciba for multi-word terms, common expressions and when I need to work with Simplified Chinese. They draw their database from reputable dictionaries anyway and offer a level of flexibility that is simply not available in print.
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Completely off-topic, but a few months back I reviewed no less than three English to Chinese translations of a text that contained the term "Northern Lights". Every single one of them failed to grasp that Northern Lights is aurora borealis, or even that Northern Lights is an actual thing. Seriously, for goddamn Jesus' sake, just pick up a frickin' dictionary, people, it's in every bloody dictionary that I looked in, online or print, monolingual or bilingual. Good frickin' grief, would it have killed you to spend three seconds typing "northern lights" into Google or Wikipedia or something when you're clearly not sure what's going on, instead of trying to make stuff up and proving that you haven't got a bloody clue.
[Edited at 2014-10-09 19:34 GMT]
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 01:17
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Different need? | Oct 9, 2014 |
I think it might be that you and I use them for different things. I turn to a dictionary when I don't know the word - mostly I don't know the character. And the simplified information I get in a bilingual dictionary doesn't give me the precision I need. I suspect you run into characters you don't know much less frequently than I do. But you're right that the information on the websites is pretty good these days. My go-to site at the moment is zdic.net, which gives me definitions in both language... See more I think it might be that you and I use them for different things. I turn to a dictionary when I don't know the word - mostly I don't know the character. And the simplified information I get in a bilingual dictionary doesn't give me the precision I need. I suspect you run into characters you don't know much less frequently than I do. But you're right that the information on the websites is pretty good these days. My go-to site at the moment is zdic.net, which gives me definitions in both languages.
Edit to your edit: Yes to this. Oh, yes.
[Edited at 2014-10-09 19:27 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Bilingual dictionaries and specialist material | Oct 10, 2014 |
I have no problem with someone using bilingual dictionaries when translating specialist material, if you confirm what the source term means in a good monolingual source reference work and in the context of its given use and if you also confirm the target term in a good monolingual target reference work.
Anything else is a recipe for disaster: Pick some specialized area that you have an in-depth knowledge of and see what you think about the quality of the bilingual reference materia... See more I have no problem with someone using bilingual dictionaries when translating specialist material, if you confirm what the source term means in a good monolingual source reference work and in the context of its given use and if you also confirm the target term in a good monolingual target reference work.
Anything else is a recipe for disaster: Pick some specialized area that you have an in-depth knowledge of and see what you think about the quality of the bilingual reference materials available for it - also in terms of the different range of meanings that given terms have in different languages.
I certainly "confessed" to using bilingual dictionaries under certain circumstances, but I also think they are fundamentally dangerous, because their use tends to push us in the direction of translating words instead of content. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 01:17
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Blaming the tool | Oct 10, 2014 |
they are fundamentally dangerous, because their use tends to push us in the direction of translating words instead of content.
I would say that this has everything to do with the translator and nothing to do with the dictionary.
| | | | Rob Lunn
Spain
Local time: 19:17
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Different needs, definitely | Oct 10, 2014 |
I agree with the different needs idea: monolingual for more information and bilingual for inspiration and when you don't have a clue.
As far as technical terms go, I think it depends on the field. At least with legal translation, monolingual sources are essential. You do occasionally have to "invent" the target term, and you can only do that if you fully understand the source term and any potential target equivalents and false friends.
Of course, for a list of unrelate... See more I agree with the different needs idea: monolingual for more information and bilingual for inspiration and when you don't have a clue.
As far as technical terms go, I think it depends on the field. At least with legal translation, monolingual sources are essential. You do occasionally have to "invent" the target term, and you can only do that if you fully understand the source term and any potential target equivalents and false friends.
Of course, for a list of unrelated technical terms, your first port of call will probably be a bilingual dictionary, although you still might use monolingual sources later on.
Either way, I think you get a pretty good feel for what you need and instinctively grab for (or browse to) one or the other depending on the situation. ▲ Collapse
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