| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14] > | Please remove ChatGPT option from KudoZ (Staff: removed) Thread poster: ibz
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texjax DDS PhD 
Local time: 09:58
Member (2006)
English to Italian
+ ...
Hi Henry,
I do appreciate your consideration and invitation to participate, but I have to respectfully decline. I don’t feel entitled to act as a spokesperson for this issue. Also, I don’t feel I can discuss all the points raised against the current use of ChatGPT in the KudoZ area, nor I have been one of the most vocal critics here*. By the same token, I would not elect anyone to represent me. We are not members of an association; we don’t appoint representatives.
Mos... See more Hi Henry,
I do appreciate your consideration and invitation to participate, but I have to respectfully decline. I don’t feel entitled to act as a spokesperson for this issue. Also, I don’t feel I can discuss all the points raised against the current use of ChatGPT in the KudoZ area, nor I have been one of the most vocal critics here*. By the same token, I would not elect anyone to represent me. We are not members of an association; we don’t appoint representatives.
Most importantly, I feel that participation in this conversation should be open to all for transparency purposes.
That said, let me underscore that no one wants to limit the freedom to use ChatGPT. That would be simply foolish. After all, it’s readily available to anyone just by opening a new tab. Maybe, alternatively, it could be used as a separate tool in other areas of the site.
From my standpoint, the KudoZ area should remain a place to foster human-to-human interaction and open communication and exchange between human colleagues, a place to learn, to hone one’s research skills, to help each other, and to showcase our knowledge and understanding of a topic. It should not be a place to disagree and have virtual conversations with a tool granted the status of member to explain it why, despite touting
My knowledge spans a wide array of subjects, from technical fields like legal, medical, and engineering to creative domains like literature, culture, and arts. Whether you're translating a legal contract, a medical report, a marketing campaign, or a literary masterpiece, I'm equipped to assist you in finding the right term and conveying the intended message accurately
its answers can still be wrong.
In my view, ChatGPT does the exact opposite of fostering cooperation and, frankly, dipicting it as a tool to enable us “to realize our full potential” — which, with all due respect, resembles more an excerpt from an old Tony Robbins’ book with ripped, yellow pages on a Goodwill shelf— is adding insult to injury.
Another reason for questioning my participation in today’s virtual meeting is that you don’t seem to be open to changing your mind at all. It’s perfectly OK to stand your ground, but we don’t need a private meeting for that. If, for whatever reason, you’ll be interested in hearing the opinion of some ProZ members on another topic in the future, I’ll be happy and honored to be a part of it.
So, again, thank you kindly but this doesn’t seem the right time.
*So far, as you can see from my lengthy post. Sorry!
[Edited at 2023-10-31 15:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I wrote a few hours ago:
If you [Henry] are genuinely interested in knowing what other 'points' I have in mind that might help you mitigate the damage done by your self-inflicted Chat/Kudoz disaster, please feel free to send me an invite to that meeting.
Well, we've reached the appointed hour, noon (GMT-4), and I've received no invite. 'nuf said!
JL
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Ice Scream wrote:
If Henry puts a link up, and I'm available, I will pop along. Why not? It'd nice to be able to talk in real time without a muzzle.
Glad to read that, Ice! We're starting in 12 minutes... link being sent!
| | | | | Thanks to Becca and Ice Scream for joining! | Oct 31, 2023 |
We had a nice chat. Becca and Ice gave me some food for thought. Also on a personal level, it was a pleasure. Thanks again!
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Henry seemed quite taken with Becca's points. Watch this space, I guess.
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Ice Scream wrote:
Watch this space, I guess.
I'm watching, but I don't expect to see anything. Nothing new, anyway.
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I let Ice know that I plan to get a few team members together to look at how we could enable askers to tap AI as a reference via the KudoZ comments section, rather than involving it as a KudoZ "player", as though it were a human professional, which it obviously is not. Or maybe we'll look to provide access to it as a reference tool for interested answerers. (I imagine my writing that will ruffle a few feathers, but so be it.) In any case, I view it as our job as a company that serves freelance... See more I let Ice know that I plan to get a few team members together to look at how we could enable askers to tap AI as a reference via the KudoZ comments section, rather than involving it as a KudoZ "player", as though it were a human professional, which it obviously is not. Or maybe we'll look to provide access to it as a reference tool for interested answerers. (I imagine my writing that will ruffle a few feathers, but so be it.) In any case, I view it as our job as a company that serves freelancers to give willing professionals convenient access to this powerful new tool that is AI. Just like we provided access to terms search in the past. But I have no special reason to anthropomorphize AI. I guess I was somehow missing that element of this before speaking with Becca and Ice.
To be clear, it will probably be a few weeks before anything changes. Thanks everyone for your participation to this point. ▲ Collapse
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| | ibz
Local time: 15:58
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | So this is it? | Nov 2, 2023 |
So this is the result?
Henry Dotterer wrote:
I let Ice know that I plan to get a few team members together to look at how we could enable askers to tap AI as a reference via the KudoZ comments section, rather than involving it as a KudoZ "player", as though it were a human professional, which it obviously is not.
So it will still be there, as a part of KudoZ, even so no one here is in favour of it? Even so it produces crap? And invents explanations as well as words?
Henry Dotterer wrote:
To be clear, it will probably be a few weeks before anything changes. Thanks everyone for your participation to this point.
Come on, Henry, you can do better than that! Don't tell me you are physically not able to immediately remove ChatGPT and its profil which is clearly full of lies - even you are acknowledging now that this bot is obviously not "a human professional". Isn't there any rule against forging a profile? Aren't you just trying to sit this out?
I bet this bot will be here forever and will now even be included in the comments/reference section. What a great idea.
[Edited at 2023-11-02 08:00 GMT]
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 15:58
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Looks good if I understood it well | Nov 2, 2023 |
Henry Dotterer wrote:
I let Ice know that I plan to get a few team members together to look at how we could enable askers to tap AI as a reference via the KudoZ comments section, rather than involving it as a KudoZ "player", as though it were a human professional, which it obviously is not. Or maybe we'll look to provide access to it as a reference tool for interested answerers.
If this means the bot will be shut down as an answerer, this is a big step!
How could the solutions mentioned by you look like?
I view it as our job as a company that serves freelancers to give willing professionals convenient access to this powerful new tool that is AI. Just like we provided access to terms search in the past.
Given the powerful AI tools out there which are easier to use directly, why not implementing AI in other fields for translators?
From my point of view, its usefulness for translation is very little here (and in general, as dedicated tools are quite better).
So what about asking the ProZ members for what they think AI could be of avail? What are their concrete needs?
I have no special reason to anthropomorphize AI. I guess I was somehow missing that element of this before speaking with Becca and Ice.
Great, we've been saying that all along, but looks like we're all aligned now on this!
[Bearbeitet am 2023-11-02 08:47 GMT]
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 14:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Henry Dotterer wrote:
Hi folks. I put a Google Meet on the calendar for next Tuesday at noon New York time (4pm GMT). Please let me know if you would like to be included in that call. Zea? Philip? express? Ice? ibz? Texjax? Tom? Please come and state your case for why the option must be removed... and I'll tell you anything you want to know about how we think AI is a tool and we want to help our members make use of it to their advantage.
I came late, and I'm sorry!
I've been busy and only started reading the latest messages here yesterday.
I didn't receive any invitation to that meeting.
On the other hand, I've clearly expressed my opinion before and even made a suggestion: remove ChatGPT as a "member" and use it as a translation assistance tool in the Terminology section for any member who wants to use it, not to answer questions on Kudoz, but to help them with their own translation tasks.
Anyway, I've been feeling so discouraged that my desire to come here and participate is fading.
I think I need to focus on other more interesting and more technical topics than AI, translation is dying and alike...
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Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 09:58
Spanish to English
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[Edited at 2023-11-04 04:13 GMT]
| | | | Metin Demirel
Türkiye
Local time: 16:58
Member (2018)
Italian to Turkish
+ ...
| please listen to us | Nov 4, 2023 |
expressisverbis wrote:
On the other hand, I've clearly expressed my opinion before and even made a suggestion: remove ChatGPT as a "member" and use it as a translation assistance tool in the Terminology section for any member who wants to use it, not to answer questions on Kudoz, but to help them with their own translation tasks.
Anyway, I've been feeling so discouraged that my desire to come here and participate is fading.
While we have seen many of our fellow colleagues expressing their discontent about the use of ChatGPT in KudoZ, I have yet to see one ProZ member here, who practically advocates its benefits hoping to convince us in good faith that it is useful. However, we -the opponents- keep being ignored, and sometimes censored.
I am not an enemy of MT or AI. I never used AI because my clients never asked for it. As for MT, I've been accepting MTPE projects for the last two years, because the clients have been asking for it and they know what MTPE is. Also, I am making the same money with MTPE on an hourly basis. 4 years ago I was self-conceitedly declining the MTPE offers. Now I owe about 30% of my income to MTPE. Of course, I also wanted to test out ChatGPT. But I didn't see any use of it. It is just machine translation. Since my busiest language pair is Italian to Turkish, MTPE means that the machine translates a text from Italian to English first under the hood and then re-translates that MT output into Turkish, so it is double-worse. However, I must admit that ChatGPT translates much better from Turkish to English, but I hardly receive any jobs in that pair and when I do, I remind the client that I am not a native English speaker. Because I serve the clients and as long as it is ethical, I try to meet their needs. I cannot decide to use AI or MT at my own discretion.
But when I am the client, as in the case of my ProZ membership, I must be able to have my voice heard. And I should not be censored or restricted in disguise of "inclusive format". Just as I should not (and do not) push my clients to embrace the beauty of MT or AI, ProZ should not impose on us the benefits of AI. We know what it is. And we do not want it. As for those who want it, who can stop them?
Apparently, AI or MT will diminish the market share of human translators drastically. I cannot stop the world changing. But I could at least defend the fort somewhat longer. And I wish that this platform, where we are the clients, would support us in our effort. Yet we are losing Baghdad and the information minister is making fun of us as below:
Henry Dotterer wrote on another thread that is inclusive: Experts on methodology: Which of the findings is wrong? Thanks for the feedback on the survey methodologies. It is good to know that we have a number of experts on market research and data analytics here among us. 
Dear ProZ Team,
There is one thing you are forgetting. We are your clients. You own the platform, but you do not own us. You do not own our expertise. You do not own experience. And most importantly, you cannot own our will. We created KudoZ, not you. You created this platform, and we created you.
I have stopped applying for the projects on the jobs section five years ago. So far I have been able to get only one job, and that was in a peculiar language pair with few providers (Ottoman Turkish to English). But all those years, I never hesitated renewing my membership because a) it doesn't cost much, b) I simply liked being a member here, and c) I thought of it like a business card that doesn't ensure finding clients but every service provider has to have one.
Unfortunately, I will not renew my membership next year, because AI is threatening our profession and you are promoting it. I am sorry to say this but I must be an idiot to be a paying member at a platform that supports a menace that threatens my livelihood.
Our profession is based on communication. Person A and Person B cannot are not able communicate because either of them lacks the ability to speak the other one's language. But then we appear and enable them to understand each other. This is what we have been doing for thousands of years. But at ProZ, we fail to communicate to you our concern because you are not listening to us.
PS: It is embarrassing to have to say this, but I am going to take a screenshot of this port after hitting the "Submit" button, because I fear that it may get deleted.
| | | | | Thanks for sharing your experience with MT / AI, Metin. But you're wrong about us. | Nov 4, 2023 |
Thanks, Metin. I do appreciate your supporting ProZ.com, and the ProZ.com team, with your membership. I feel blessed to be able to do this for a living, and I think that other employees of ProZ feel the same way. And you are quite right, it is people like you that have made it possible.
Thanks also for sharing openly your experience with AI and MT.
On the other hand, you are pretty much completely wrong in your presumptions about ProZ, and about me. Far from promoting ... See more Thanks, Metin. I do appreciate your supporting ProZ.com, and the ProZ.com team, with your membership. I feel blessed to be able to do this for a living, and I think that other employees of ProZ feel the same way. And you are quite right, it is people like you that have made it possible.
Thanks also for sharing openly your experience with AI and MT.
On the other hand, you are pretty much completely wrong in your presumptions about ProZ, and about me. Far from promoting AI at the expense of translator, which would make no sense for a business whose customer is the freelancer (and which will cease to exist if translators cease to exist), our objective is to bring the power of this new tool into the hands of those among our members who care to make use of it. We have no desire and no rationale to push it on anyone. (I won't get pulled into a discussion of how letting askers opt to involve AI in KudoZ is consistent with that. It is easy enough to understand, for anyone who cares to.)
I don't expect you to be convinced by this post from me, Metin. But it will be as it always is; let the discerning professional decide whose side we are on, and whether or not ProZ membership is a worthwhile investment. And we'll keep doing our best for those who make it possible for us to do what we do. ▲ Collapse
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