| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14] > | Please remove ChatGPT option from KudoZ (Staff: removed) Thread poster: ibz
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Michele Fauble 
United States
Local time: 22:39
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
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| Generative A.I. isn’t really intelligence | Oct 5, 2023 |
“Starting last fall there was a huge surge in buzz, both positive and negative, about A.I. That buzz seems to have died down to some extent, with usage of ChatGPT, the most famous implementation of the technology, declining in recent months. And many more observers have realized that what we’ve been calling A.I. — or what more careful people call “generative A.I.” — isn’t really intelligence. What it is instead is extrapolation from pattern recognition. Or as some people I talk to ... See more “Starting last fall there was a huge surge in buzz, both positive and negative, about A.I. That buzz seems to have died down to some extent, with usage of ChatGPT, the most famous implementation of the technology, declining in recent months. And many more observers have realized that what we’ve been calling A.I. — or what more careful people call “generative A.I.” — isn’t really intelligence. What it is instead is extrapolation from pattern recognition. Or as some people I talk to put it, it’s basically souped-up autocorrect.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/opinion/ai-jobs-economy-budget.html ▲ Collapse
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Michele Fauble wrote:
From the NYT: “Starting last fall there was a huge surge in buzz, both positive and negative, about A.I. ..."
This buzz has been around for a while. Check out ELIZA.
So the AI mania dates back to the mid-1960s. Every so often a new piece of software comes out and the mass media go crazy about computers replacing humans, making decisions for us and even taking over the world.
ChatGPT is just a super-duper version of ELIZA. Anybody who falls for this hype has just not done their homework.
(I am informed by the helpful ProZ website that I have already posted 8 times so far in this thread. I hope my contributions haven't been too tedious and repetitive.)
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Philip Lees wrote:
So the AI mania dates back to the mid-1960s. Every so often a new piece of software comes out and the mass media go crazy about computers replacing humans, making decisions for us and even taking over the world.
ChatGPT is just a super-duper version of ELIZA. Anybody who falls for this hype has just not done their homework.
I haven’t done any homework (been too busy watching paint dry), but I have seen with my own eyes (and a number of others I keep in a bowl on the coffee table, like Ferrero Rochers) that there has been a mahoosive increase in the USE of AI, if not, as you say, its actual ability.
My local bike shop is using it to write product descriptions on its website (“so much easier”). I’m seeing estate agents using it for overblown property details (“Now behold the majestic vista over Swansea Bay and distant dreams”). I even read somewhere that translators of all people are using it, if only as a tool.
Trouble is, bike shops still have physical bikes to fix, and estate agents have doors to open, whereas my work has dropped off a cliff and I don’t think it’s coincidental, and the obvious jobs for me to “pivot” to are also being taken over increasingly by AI and remunerated accordingly, so I make no apologies for another end-of-the-world post to mark my not-so-triumphant return to the fold.
So I do still think AI has no place on this site. But I do also realise it ain’t going nowhere.
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 07:39
Member (2009)
English to German
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 06:39
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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| A complete joke! | Oct 6, 2023 |
I've always seen on this list the right selected suggestions from members.
In this case, I see the answers given by this piece of crap that is ChatGPT on Kudoz, when in fact the answers selected by the asker are those of a human member.
One of the questions has yet to be closed.
That human member is me, and not that I care much about this, but this is a complete joke!
Please take a look. I believe this happens with other language pairs: human answers are selected by ask... See more I've always seen on this list the right selected suggestions from members.
In this case, I see the answers given by this piece of crap that is ChatGPT on Kudoz, when in fact the answers selected by the asker are those of a human member.
One of the questions has yet to be closed.
That human member is me, and not that I care much about this, but this is a complete joke!
Please take a look. I believe this happens with other language pairs: human answers are selected by askers, but on that list we see ChatGPT's answers as if an asker would choose this idiotic robot's suggestions and took the credit...
[Edited at 2023-10-06 13:46 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why all the fuss? | Oct 6, 2023 |
For years we've been surrounded by self-declared experts who often can't even write a logical sentence in languages they want us to believe they master. And so many novices are fooled. I'd mention names but then I'd be censored again. So why not allow ChatGPT too? Others present answers based purely on google, linguee, deepL. So what's the harm? On a site geared towards helping professionals! Big smile 
| | | | ibz
Local time: 07:39
Member (2007)
English to German
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TOPIC STARTER
Because ChatGPT is stupid on KudoZ and sometimes you should raise your voice against something stupid?
(Not that I'm not amused by the absurd answers once in a while as well  )
| | | | | And sometimes it's the stupid who are protected | Oct 6, 2023 |
ibz wrote: Because ChatGPT is stupid on KudoZ and sometimes you should raise your voice against something stupid? (Not that I'm not amused by the absurd answers once in a while as well )
It happens here all the time.
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Ice Scream wrote:
... my work has dropped off a cliff and I don’t think it’s coincidental, and the obvious jobs for me to “pivot” to are also being taken over increasingly by AI and remunerated accordingly, so I make no apologies for another end-of-the-world post to mark my not-so-triumphant return to the fold.
So I do still think AI has no place on this site. But I do also realise it ain’t going nowhere.
I don't follow your logic here, Chris. If AI is indeed taking over a lot of translation work, then it does have a place on this site. I happen to think that neither of those statements is true, though.
Many years ago I worked at a tax office in London. You can tell how long ago that was by the fact that we were still doing all calculations "by hand", filling in forms with regulation black biros, working everything out in our heads, and cross-checking totals across columns and rows. I'm talking about forms with the structure of a complex spreadsheet (as we would call it now), but on paper.
Then, while I was working there we were given a calculator! Wow!! There was just one, to be shared by the whole office, but we thought the world had changed—as indeed it was about to over the next decade.
But as far as I know, there are still tax offices in London and elsewhere, with people in them working out the tax liabilities of individuals and companies. It's just much easier for them now.
And as far as I know, the accountancy profession hasn't disappeared. Even though several of their traditional skills—a facility for mental arithmetic, accuracy in complex computations and neatness in writing figures—have been rendered irrelevant. I don't have data to back this up, but I would suppose that accountants who, for whatever reason, refused to use the new tools became uncompetitive and probably lost a lot of business around that time. But most accountants simply adopted the new technology and incorporated it into their workflow.
I'm just suggesting that translators should do the same.
| | | | | Apples and oranges | Oct 10, 2023 |
Philip Lees wrote: But most accountants simply adopted the new technology and incorporated it into their workflow.
I'm just suggesting that translators should do the same.
Ye-es. But it’s not quite the same.
My impression is that less is being translated into English, because lots of content is being generated by non-natives using AI. Maybe this is more pronounced in the Scandi countries where increasing volumes are being published in English only.
I could use AI to do some of my work for me. But at the end of the day that would leave me as a reviewer, and I’ve never really enjoyed that, whether the original was produced by a human or a machine or even, in the case of CAT, me.
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Ice Scream wrote:
I could use AI to do some of my work for me. But at the end of the day that would leave me as a reviewer, and I’ve never really enjoyed that, whether the original was produced by a human or a machine or even, in the case of CAT, me.
Well, I wouldn't call that "reviewing". As the title of my previous post suggested, I consider the generation of a rough first draft translation, with or without the assistance of MT, to be "grunt work". The creative stuff comes later.
In the past, to produce a written "word" a translator would have had to draw out each letter individually with a pen or similar instrument. Now we just tap four keys on a keyboard. I doubt many people in our profession would regard that as a loss, even though writing by hand is undoubtedly more creative than typing, as a mass of illuminated manuscripts will testify.
I'm happy to let the computer speed me through the grunt work, leaving me more time and energy to devote to the crafting of an excellent final target document.
| | | | ibz
Local time: 07:39
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Missing the point | Oct 11, 2023 |
I think you're missing the point, Philip,
[In the past, to produce a written "word" a translator would have had to draw out each letter individually with a pen or similar instrument. Now we just tap four keys on a keyboard. I doubt many people in our profession would regard that as a loss, even though writing by hand is undoubtedly more creative than typing, as a mass of illuminated manuscripts will testify.
I'm happy to let the computer speed me through the grunt work... See more I think you're missing the point, Philip,
[In the past, to produce a written "word" a translator would have had to draw out each letter individually with a pen or similar instrument. Now we just tap four keys on a keyboard. I doubt many people in our profession would regard that as a loss, even though writing by hand is undoubtedly more creative than typing, as a mass of illuminated manuscripts will testify.
I'm happy to let the computer speed me through the grunt work, leaving me more time and energy to devote to the crafting of an excellent final target document. [/quote]
I'm not talking about banning CAT tools or any technological progress from our work, but about ChatGPT on KudoZ - a feature that's utterly useless, ridiculous and makes not sense at all. In what way does this speed up a professional translator's work, I wonder?
I agree that stupid answers also come from human beings, but frankly speaking, I prefer human stupidity to machine crap being sold as the ultimate wisdom. ▲ Collapse
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| Skirting at a distance | Oct 11, 2023 |
ibz wrote:
I think you're missing the point, Philip,
Not so much missing the point, perhaps, as straying slightly from the topic. Let me try to steer it back.
I entirely agree that ChatGPT has no place on KudoZ, as I think I've made clear in other posts. I was just trying to place these tools in a proper perspective: they belong in the same category as the fountain pen, the ballpoint, the manual typewriter and the IBM Selectric, the computer and word processor, from plain text to WYSIWYG, in a long line of technological developments that have aided the translator.
Where they do not belong is alongside that human translator, being treated as an equal.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 07:39
French to English
Philip Lees wrote:
Many years ago I worked at a tax office in London. You can tell how long ago that was by the fact that we were still doing all calculations "by hand", filling in forms with regulation black biros, working everything out in our heads, and cross-checking totals across columns and rows. I'm talking about forms with the structure of a complex spreadsheet (as we would call it now), but on paper.
Then, while I was working there we were given a calculator! Wow!! There was just one, to be shared by the whole office, but we thought the world had changed—as indeed it was about to over the next decade.
But as far as I know, there are still tax offices in London and elsewhere, with people in them working out the tax liabilities of individuals and companies. It's just much easier for them now.
And as far as I know, the accountancy profession hasn't disappeared. Even though several of their traditional skills—a facility for mental arithmetic, accuracy in complex computations and neatness in writing figures—have been rendered irrelevant. I don't have data to back this up, but I would suppose that accountants who, for whatever reason, refused to use the new tools became uncompetitive and probably lost a lot of business around that time. But most accountants simply adopted the new technology and incorporated it into their workflow.
I'm just suggesting that translators should do the same.
What happened too is that accounting became a whole lot more complex, as did finance in general. The complexity became possible because of automation, and clever accountants simultaneously ensured their own job security.
This is not happening with translation. Language is being dumbed down (the UK government writes for the public using the language of 7yos) and thus translation is ever easier, meaning that the machines can handle both writing and translating.
[Edited at 2023-10-11 08:15 GMT]
| | | | | Good writing - not | Oct 12, 2023 |
Kay Denney wrote:
What happened too is that accounting became a whole lot more complex, as did finance in general. The complexity became possible because of automation, and clever accountants simultaneously ensured their own job security.
This is not happening with translation. Language is being dumbed down (the UK government writes for the public using the language of 7yos) and thus translation is ever easier, meaning that the machines can handle both writing and translating.
I've seen this view expressed before. What you're saying is essentially that good writing is going to become obsolete.
I really hope that is not true.
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